Reflexions upon MG and light mortars effectiveness

[PEB14]

Hi,

What do you think about the MGs and light mortars effectiveness in WW2 games?

I've played a lot of game as the US against the Germans, and I'm surprised by some findings.

1) All automatic weapons have very similar performances, at least at the engagement ranges used in most games (300 meters or less). That makes MMG and HMG cumbersome and not worth the value when compared to LMG. On the other end of the scale, submachineguns are definitively overpowered at medium and long ranges (but that's a known issue).

2) The US light mortar is THE super weapon for infantry. In all my US games, it always was the winner. It's a lot less cubersome than a MMG, it is more difficult to spot, and its precision is generally incredible.

In all WW2 account I came across, MGs are generally the winning infantry weapons, not the light mortars. Interestingly, the Germans even removed their own 50 mm mortar from frontline units' TOE, judging it underpowered.

So? Is CM overrating the light mortars in some way?

[womble]

Light mortars are great everywhere. Italians, Kriegsmarine et al. 60mm. Get them firing in direct lay, and soft targets don't last long. I don't know whether that's because of some overmodelling (though BFC have toned down HE effects generally, AIUI, for "gameplay reasons"), or whether we're just more pushy with our mortar crews than historical commanders were, so the effects are more obvious. Or maybe we're judging by kills rather than suppression (though "dead" is pretty thoroughly suppressed), and the ammo supply for MGs lets them pin targets for much longer than mortars can maintain their bombardment, even on Target Light.

[PEB14]

You're right. Only the British mortars is somewhat lagging behind (smaller calibre, and very few ammo).

[Artkin]

I learned recently that the German 50mm mortars were phased out due to limited range. I think it was from the audiobook version of "Enduring the Whirlwind" which was pretty much entirely focused on the Germans from 1941-43.

[Codreanu]

No clue about their effectiveness in real life but light mortars in CM are absolute game changers. It's just so convenient to be able to suppress an anti-tank gun or machine-gun with your infantry squads and then hit it with the light mortar for a few turns and knock it out. Even if you burn up an entire mortar's worth of shells on one emplacement it's well worth the trade and more often than not you'll still have a lot of shells left over.

[Brille]

11 hours ago, PEB14 said:

You're right. Only the British mortars is somewhat lagging behind (smaller calibre, and very few ammo).

I guess you cannot see the British 2inch mortars like every other mortar other nations have. Those are not for continious fire support. 

Don't know about the use in doctrine but I see them as more versatile and extended sort of rifle grenades. So they are more of an addition to the firepower of a platoon than their own unit in itself if that makes sense. 

Plus they can deliver smokerounds of which they have plenty. 

In the right windconditions they can be very effective in hiding your troops from the enemy very quickly. 

Overall light mortars are very efficient indeed but in my opinion far from overpowered. If they get zeroed in on a squad in open ground he surely will be obliterated. But that's what I expect from a half trained crew to do. 

If you are on the receiving end though it is your job to take this into account and don't walk in such conditions or at least know how to step out of it again.

Same is with MG. And though the lines between lmg, mmg and hmg are sometimes a bit blurry at certain distances, I would rather have an mmg/hmg over an lmg. At least if the map has some more open terrain to it.

While they have somewhat similar suppressive effects at close range (up to 300m) I have the feeling those mounted MG have a higher chance to actually hit a thing. Plus because of their mount, most of these MG are built up a bit higher in elevation and work better when shooting over high grass, walls and such. 

Not to mention that specialized mmg/HMG teams have, as far as I know, longer belts so they can keep the machine going for a longer time. 

 

Edited June 26, 2023 by Brille

[chuckdyke]

15 hours ago, PEB14 said:

What do you think about the MGs and light mortars effectiveness in WW2 games?

British mortars (2inch) use your smoke first, I use them as spotting rounds for the FO. Like a flare which are not modelled in the game and radio communications were still in its infancy. Also if you use the few HE first I thinks once they run out you can't use your smoke rounds. US 60 mm direct fire is my first option. The same for 3 Inch British CW and 81 mm Germans. I found for me these tactics work well. 

Edited June 26, 2023 by chuckdyke

[slysniper]

Why Mg's were valued over the light mortar is seen in the game in my opinion.

The light mortars are great when you can direct fire them on a target of importance to you that needs removed.

But with the limited access to the ammo and units. there effectiveness is short lived.

Whereas, Mgs normally have large supplies of Ammo, and can maintain a dangerous presence for along time and control areas of the battlefield, where as the mortars cannot.

 

This would have been true in real battle also, but just more enhanced  when on offensive operations. exspecially since real combat dragged out much longer  than in cm.

But you also get the benefit of not having to take on mortars in defencive positions with large caches of ammo supplies either

[chuckdyke]

The Bren and the 50 mm are a team. One enables the other three to deploy. 

[Bulletpoint]

I agree with your findings, but would like to add that real life mortars are even more deadly, since they can easily be hidden and then you can put an unseen spotter a couple of metres in front of it to spot and call out adjustments very quickly. In the game, if you place the mortar out of sight, then you need to call in fire missions through the interface, which takes a very long time.

As for HMGs I find them quite undermodelled in the game in terms of accuracy, reaction times, and ability to suppress and control ground.