KIA/incapacitated driver replaced by other crew member instantly

[Chibot Mk IX]

Hope this can be improved in the future CM engine. 

I am playing a CMRT PBEM game, "CMFR Deep Raid".

As you can find out from the video below,  my M4A2 was ambushed by a Marder. The AP round kills or incapacitate the driver. But the radio operator replaced the driver instantly, reverse the tank back to safety.

CMRT M4 incapacitated driver replaced by radio operator.

 

[Chibot Mk IX]

And here are some screenshots

 

Before:

 

Hit, see the driver disappear 

 

1s After. 

See the Radio operator changed to the driver position 

 

[Bulletpoint]

Yep, agree it should take a bit of time to switch around.

[ASL Veteran]

Switching around isn't what they would do and taking more time to do it wouldn't make it more 'realistic'.  if the driver were killed but the tank was still functional the crew would bail out.  If another crewmember was killed and the driver was still functioning the tank would retreat off the map.  Basically any time a crew member is killed in a WW2 tank that ends the fight for that tank.

[Brille]

11 hours ago, ASL Veteran said:

Switching around isn't what they would do and taking more time to do it wouldn't make it more 'realistic'.  if the driver were killed but the tank was still functional the crew would bail out.  If another crewmember was killed and the driver was still functioning the tank would retreat off the map.  Basically any time a crew member is killed in a WW2 tank that ends the fight for that tank.

Well but since CM decides to actually switch positions inside a tank it surely could do it as realistical as it could in this situation. 

In Cmx1 you often got the state "shocked" if one crewmember got hit, which often was the commander, looking out his cupola. 

 

This left the tank motionless for a few seconds before he either fired back or hit the reverse. 

That felt at least more realistic indeed. 

 

I had this instance with a tank gunner: He got shot (and luckily only him), was replaced immediately and the replacement fired back in the same second on the threat that caused that one casualty. He didn't hit due to panic and the rumbling of the tank as he drew backwards but loosing crewmember feel less impactful in this situations, as rare as they be. 

 

A somewhat similar occasion is with heavy weapons teams, especially with German hmg. 

If the gunner is hit, the weapon automatically and instantly transitions to the next dude in the team. 

And yeah I understand it that it would be the priority for all the team members to retrieve the weapon but it could be with a little few "shock" seconds ("oh no Karl got hit! Wait, better get the gun working again! " in a abstracted fashion) 

This way however I had one very odd occasion in a battle: In a night brawl my us forces stumbled upon an oddly spread out (semi deployed) hmg team. They started shooting, and quickly hit the machine gunner. But the MG warped instantly to the next guy 10m away and in another direction to my us squad. He shot immediately and hit a few guys, before got taken out. But again the MG warped to the next one in another direction and as his buddy before him he started shooting as well. I got pretty much the same situation with another HMG team in the same battle, which felt like a mad "whack the mole" game of some sort.

 

I'm not really complaining and I canceled it of as engine limitations. It was quite entertaining though.

[Artkin]

There are so man realism errors in these games which really holds it back from being anything other than a game. It's really disappointing that issues like this have been completely ignored despite all of us knowing about its existence. The games could be so much better with some tweaks. 

Edited April 22, 2023 by Artkin

[Andrew Kulin]

Yes the replacement of injured killed crew members is an oddity.  Just had this happen in CMCW with a moving American Jeep.  Nearinstant replacement of the dead driver while the Jeep continued to race forward.

Think how easy it is to change places with the driver if you were sitting in the passenger seat of your vehicle while you both remain inside the vehicle.  Now imagine the driver has been killed and you want to take their place in the driver seat.

[ASL Veteran]

yes, body parts everywhere and the seat soaked in blood.  Not sure that I would be too thrilled to remove the body parts and sit in a pool of blood to take over the driver's position when the enemy is still firing at my tank.

Quote

During a fire attack on Krinkelt we took a direct hit in front of the turret.  It ripped a hole of about 1 meter into the armor.  The explosion virtually tore our driver, Sturmmann Karl Heiz von Elm into pieces.  Our radio operator Sturmmann Gottfried Opitz lost his left arm.  The radio equipment had provided him with some protection.  The legs of Sturmmann Hannes Simon ended up full of shrapnel.  I was sitting in the cupola, my legs pulled up, so I got away with just a fright.  I was able to get Hannes and Gottfried onto an armored personnel carrier which was on its way to the dressing station.  Our panzer was towed to the repair company at Losheimergraben.

Quote

 

Several B Squadron tanks were knocked out, some burning.  I ordered Barney (Trooper Barnes) to turn left to face the enemy tanks and then reverse.  We were now firing at the enemy but I could tell they were ranging on us.  We had reversed about 25 yards and we were hit in the front and the shell killed our gunner, Bill Slater, outright.  Stan Duckworth (wireless operator / loader) was seriously wounded in the legs and slumped to the turret floor. 

Though himself wounded in the knee, Jim tried unsuccessfully to open the two forward crew hatches, before giving up and hauling the wounded operator out of the still reversing tank.  Jim carried the operator for an hour to an Advanced Field Dressing Station where he himself collapsed with wounds that ended his Army career.  Only twenty years later did Jim learn why the tank had continued moving.  Throwing the tank into reverse gear was an instinctive response.  Barney, the driver, had gone a step further by inventing a device to keep the accelerator compressed if he were wounded while reversing.  The gadget served its purpose; with its driver dead at the controls the tank continued its unrelenting backwards voyage across the battlefield.

 

Quote

We were firing from all barrels.  Untersturmfuhrer Teichert’s II zug attacked south of the village.  We were located more to the west of town.  Zugfuhrer Dietrich in Panther 135 ordered us by radio to follow him.  Teichert was immobile in the village, surrounded by enemy infantry.  His panzer had taken a hit to the tracks.  We drove behind Panther 135 in the direction of the village to get Teichert out.  Panther 135 was hit from a row of bushes, approximately 100 meters away.  The crew had to bail out.  All except the radio operator made it.  Obstructed by the heavy smoke from the knocked-out vehicle, we nevertheless fired a few anti-tank shells in the direction of the row of bushes.  Untersturmfuhrer Dietrich and his crew came running towards our panzer and waved us back.  We did a 180 degree turn and got out of firing range of the Canadians.  After some 500 meters we found cover at a row of trees and set up a firing position.  Through my gunner’s sight I watched a virtual wall of fire coming at us from about 900 meters away.  We no longer had time to think, load – fire, load – fire, as fast as we could.  Then it was over for us, too.  Hits to the hull and the gun had destroyed the accuracy of the aiming mechanism.  We were firing much too short.  The next hit came just below the cupola.  The cupola and the head of our commander Hohnecker were gone.  Our driver, Binder, understood the situation.  He turned around at full throttle and drove into cover.  We were ordered by radio, no longer ready for action, to drive in the direction of the repair shop.  With our nerves on edge and our dead comrade in the panzer, we drove in the direction of Martinville.  There we buried our comrade Hohnecker.

 

[Codreanu]

1 hour ago, ASL Veteran said:

yes, body parts everywhere and the seat soaked in blood.  Not sure that I would be too thrilled to remove the body parts and sit in a pool of blood to take over the driver's position when the enemy is still firing at my tank.

There's footage out there of the aftermath of a French Sherman being hit by an 88, absolutely grisly stuff. Unless you have a crack/fanatic crew, nobody is gonna be staying in their vehicle and keep fighting after a significant emotional event like that.