TOW MISSLE set up for ground mounting on a tripod.

[Gary R Lukas]

I'm really glad this game finally came out so I'm NOT here to beat up on the design guys, I Really LOVE This Game, and everyone involved with this game DID ONE HELL OF A GOOD JOB!!!!!  But I also understand they were trying to get two games out around the same time frame ,so being a 0351/0352 in the Marines for 8 years I was very happy to see that you can dismount the TOW launcher from the M151a2, and turn it into a ground mount. After a few years later we had the HUMVEE TOW vehicles which I'm not talking about here, but I was shocked to see that you CAN'T break down the M150 TOW Vehicle from a vehicle mounted weapon and turn it into a ground mount by using the tripod?? The M901 we are not debating here either since I don't believe that that weapon system even carried a tripod to mount on a mountain top, but the M150 should be able to break there weapons systems down ground mount the TOW System wherever you like.

[FogForever]

I have found the M901 w/TOW is a very effective weapon system vs the AI.   However in my 2 PBEM games, one as the US and one as the Soviets, human counter tactics neutralize the M901 w/TOW fairly easily.   They are still good for covering large open spaces but smoke can neutralize that advantage as well if smoke is available.  If you can't count on a decent hit rate from the TOW, then they will be totally useless.  

IMO, the inability for the M901 to go true hull down and to shoot and scoot prevents them from being used effectively.  I haven't used infantry or dismounted TOWs but I suspect they are much more effective than vehicle mounted TOWs.  

[Dr.Fusselpulli]

On 7/2/2021 at 3:41 PM, FogForever said:

IMO, the inability for the M901 to go true hull down and to shoot and scoot prevents them from being used effectively.

Shoot and scoot maneuvers are possible to some degree. ATGM vehicles do not fire ATGMs if waypoints are still available. So you can not give the order to drive from a hidden position into a hull down position, give a pause order of some seconds and then go reverse into the hidden position, as the vehicle will not fire ATGMs from the paused waypoint. At least not as the game is done right now, because of engine limitations.
But there is a work around, if you give a pause order in the hidden position first, then drive up to the hull down position, so that the vehicle will stand there for about 10-15 seconds, before the turn ends, then it will shoot, as there are no following waypoints ahead. You can then drive reverse into the hidden position in the beginning of the next turn, to perform a full shoot and scoot maneuver.

[Monty's Mighty Moustache]

30 minutes ago, Dr.Fusselpulli said:

Shoot and scoot maneuvers are possible to some degree. ATGM vehicles do not fire ATGMs if waypoints are still available. So you can not give the order to drive from a hidden position into a hull down position, give a pause order of some seconds and then go reverse into the hidden position, as the vehicle will not fire ATGMs from the paused waypoint. At least not as the game is done right now, because of engine limitations.
But there is a work around, if you give a pause order in the hidden position first, then drive up to the hull down position, so that the vehicle will stand there for about 10-15 seconds, before the turn ends, then it will shoot, as there are no following waypoints ahead. You can then drive reverse into the hidden position in the beginning of the next turn, to perform a full shoot and scoot maneuver.

I was not aware of this, explains some things in an ongoing PBEM QB I am involved in. I will stop shouting at my computer now

MMM

[Dr.Fusselpulli]

It does work with cannons however, so for tanks or machine guns, this is not a problem.

[FogForever]

Quote

Shoot and scoot maneuvers are possible to some degree.

Agreed but missile armed vehicles should be able to shoot and scoot in the same manner as any other vehicle.

[Howler]

14 minutes ago, FogForever said:

Agreed but missile armed vehicles should be able to shoot and scoot in the same manner as any other vehicle.

If the missile doesn't require guidance to target - the vehicle can be handled as any other vehicle in game right now.

[MikeyD]

I have a (very) vague recollection during Beta that someone posted 'TOW dismount will be for Mutt but not for M150' so it was a deliberate decision on their part. I'm not sure about the reasoning. If I were to hazard a guess perhaps involved M150 being a single unit 'crew' including driver so dismounting with TOW would have made things awkward. You can abandon your M151 Mutt under a tree while you deploy, Walking away from an unmanned M150 seems a bit excessive.

If M150 feels itself in danger after firing a missile it will 'self-scoot' backwards at bit while it reloads.

[Dr.Fusselpulli]

8 hours ago, FogForever said:

Agreed but missile armed vehicles should be able to shoot and scoot in the same manner as any other vehicle.

Yes, when I reported this "bug", or maybe better "questionable design decision". I suggested, to change the "if/then" from "if further waypoints exist, then vehicle can't fire atgm" to "if driver is driving, then vehicle can't fire atgm". Because this is also a variable tracked by the game, as you can see in the lower left corner if you click on the unit.

Edited July 4, 2021 by Dr.Fusselpulli