Off topic!!! BUT THIS I THINK IS WORTH SHARING !!!!!

[Titan]

Something i found,also something most of us Non USA people forget

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TRIBUTE TO THE UNITED STATES

This, from a Canadian newspaper, is worth sharing.

America: The Good Neighbor.

Widespread but only partial news coverage was given recently to a remarkable

editorial broadcast from Toronto by Gordon Sinclair, a Canadian television

commentator. What follows is the full text of his trenchant remarks as

printed in the Congressional Record:

"This Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the Americans as the most

generous and possibly the least appreciated people on all the earth.

Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and Italy were lifted out of

the debris of war by the Americans who poured in billions of dollars and

forgave other billions in debts. None of these countries is today paying

even the interest on its remaining debts to the United States.

When France was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it was the Americans who

propped it up, and their reward was to be insulted and swindled on the

streets of Paris. I was there. I saw it.

When earthquakes hit distant cities, it is the United States that hurries in

to help. This spring, 59 American communities were flattened by tornadoes.

Nobody helped.

The Marshall Plan and the Truman Policy pumped billions of dollars into

discouraged countries. Now newspapers in those countries are writing about

the decadent, warmongering Americans.

I'd like to see just one of those countries that is gloating over the

erosion of the United States dollar build its own airplane. Does any other

country in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo Jet, the

Lockheed Tri-Star, or the Douglas DC10? If so, why don't they fly them? Why

do all the International lines except Russia fly American Planes? Why does

no other land on earth even consider putting a man or woman on the moon?

You talk about Japanese technocracy, and you get radios. You talk about

German technocracy, and you get automobiles.

You talk about American technocracy, and you find men on the moon - not

once, but several times - and safely home again. You talk about scandals,

and the Americans put theirs right in the store window for everybody to look

at . Even their draft-dodgers are not pursued and hounded. They are here

on our streets, and most of them, unless they are breaking Canadian laws,

are getting American dollars from ma and pa at home to spend here.

When the railways of France, Germany and India were breaking down through

age, it was the Americans who rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania Railroad

and the New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them an old caboose.

Both are still broke. I can name you 5000 times when the Americans raced to

the help of other people in trouble. Can you name me even one time when

someone else raced to the Americans in trouble? I don't think there was

outside help even during the San Francisco earthquake.

Our neighbors have faced it alone, and I'm one Canadian who is damned tired

of hearing them get kicked around. They will come out of this thing with

their flag high. And when they do, they are entitled to thumb their nose at

the lands that are gloating over their present troubles. I hope Canada is

not one of those."

Stand proud, America!

This is one of the best editorials that I have ever read regarding the

United States. It is nice that one man realizes it. I only wish that the

rest of the world would realize it. We are always blamed for everything, and

never even get a thank you for the things we do.

I would hope that each of you would send this to as many people as you can

and emphasize that they should send it to as many of their friends until

this letter is sent to every person on the web. I am just a single American

that has read this, I SURE HOPE THAT A LOT MORE READ IT SOON.

Stand proud, America!

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Well not my words,but i reckon good stuff

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"Some people don't see the light until they first feel the heat"

[BenSp]

"Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious." (Oscar Wilde)

[ncounio]

Gee, the line is thin and the border easy to cross between patriotism and nationalism ! What a dangerous path to follow !

Polemic mode on*****

Just for the record, on the airplane topic, have a look on Sud Aviation Caravelle, The De Havilland Comet,Concorde and of course the Airbus family !

Polemic mode off*****

Nicolas

[Formerly Babra]

Wow, that speech is OLD I remember hearing that when I was a kid.

[This message has been edited by Formerly Babra (edited 07-11-2000).]

[Titan]

patriotism !! Hey im not a yank,i never posted for my benefit.

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"Some people don't see the light until they first feel the heat"

[ncounio]

Sure I check your profile, But the article you posted can sound very weird (at least) to european ears.

Therefore in my mind Titan, you are not the one on the narrow path (I was rather thinking of this editorialist...)

By the way, seems to remember that NZ took a beating in 99 rugby world cup semi-final ...

Nicolas

[Titan]

Ncounio!!! DONT YOU DEAR START UP ON THE RUGBY CLASH BETWEEN NZ AND FRANCE AT THE WORLD CUP.

THE ONE WE SHOULD HAVE WON!!!

THE ONE THE BROKE A NATIONS HEART!!!!

THE ONE THAT GOT THE COACH SACKED!!!!

THE ONE THAT ENDED PLAYERS CARREERS!!!

THE ONE THAT DOMINATED NZ HEADLINES FOR WEEKS!!!!

DONT YOU DEAR!!!!!!!

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"Some people don't see the light until they first feel the heat"

[This message has been edited by Titan (edited 07-11-2000).]

[ncounio]

No I won't but I could not taunt you on Soccer (for our US readers) or Football (Rest of the world readers). That would not be fun at all ...

Unless you were...brazilian or italian

[Demangel]

Man America has it's **** to deal with... yet everybody is down on it... Yeah maybe it does suck, but show me one place in the world that is really better?

...

All I have to say about this editorial, is this my first reaction to reading it:

"Sob" And here I have siad all these nasty things about canada... Loving movies like Canadian Bacon, poking fun at them when I and my maruading band of friend's go across the border to cause mischief...

Well no more damnit... Canada your ok with me now... I'll even consider taking your money at my register next time you come to visit... "SOb"

.....

So lighten up all you people around the world who hate americans... Chances are we hate you too, but we are bigger than that... we will come bail yer ass out anyway... just cuz we can... and cuz it pisses you off...

So come on terrorists, come on rouge states with nukes... Go ahead make our day... maybe the evolution of the species would be speeded up if we turned the face of your country to glass...

So to those of you who love us despite our tresspasses, we will love you the same, and those of you who spit on us, we'll keep bailing you out, and helping you out till you hate us so much you finaly realize the "Reason" you hate us so much is cuz you hate yourselves more... then we'll all laugh and point... As the mushrooms sprout of course...

oppinions expressed in this post are not to be taken seriously... they are meant to put a smile on your face... not a frown...

if you frown you will be beaten severly and tossed into a herd of horny jackalopes till you bleed from every orafice...

[Ubermac]

Oh c'mon guys....what on earth is wrong here!? The good ol' US of A....world leader...i think that title holds certain responsibilities towards the countries you're the leader of supposedly.

Mighty fine article if yer a yank and have a big depression due to lack of attention or something, but you can't ask the baby to carry the 18 year old brother just because that brother carried the baby once...just my thoughts

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And remember kids....dressing up like Hitler in school, is NOT cool!

[howardb]

Norway got it's share of Marshall Aid after WW2, basically they helped us put our country back to normal (economically and militarly). During the cold war they hid loads of quick response caches with equipment (still has actually) all over Norway, this means USA was/is an integral part of our defense.

[Soliloquy]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Formerly Babra:

Wow, that speech is OLD I remember hearing that when I was a kid.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That is probably why Airbus, et al. were conspicuously absent. Does anyone happen to know when this was originally published?

[Bil Hardenberger]

I remember it from the mid seventies... I believe it was written by the then, Canadian Prime Minister.

Bil

[OsinO]

Canada #1!!!

[EMAN]

That airplane thing makes no sence THE U.S. EVEN USES AIRBUS PLANES

[This message has been edited by EMAN (edited 07-11-2000).]

[Smack]

I have no problem with America, except that some Americans seem to forget that other countries fought in world war 1-2. I do have a problem with a Canadian thinking of the Americans as better than anyone else. America has proved many times that it is no better than Canada, the Brits, Australia or any-other country. What Mr Sinclair is failing to remember is that his own country has also done things to help rebuild other nations, except on a smaller scale because we aren't as rich as the Americans because Canada only has 30 million people. So this Mr Sinclair shouldn't call the Americas the most generous people on earth because there are many other generous nations, except they don't have the money to spend, he has failed to mention them. The Americans are not blind, they knew that if France and Germany and all the other war torn nations in Europe stayed poor that they would have become communist, France especially! The Americans did not want most of Europe communist, so they, with other countries help, rebuilt west Germany so they would have a strong country in mainland Europe. As winston Churchill once said "I want at least something beetwen the white snows of Russia and the White Cliffs of Dover," the Americans wanted that too. Why did the Americans go to the moon? To beat thier arch enemy, the communists. The Americans rebuilt European nations to beat the communists, to defeat the villain. What about Cuba, putting sanctions on those already poor people because it is a communist country! You do not allow anyone to make anything there so the people continue to be poor or unemployed, so soon they will realize the greatness which is capatalism. What!? But the Americans go to China and build things, that doesnt make sense, aren't they communist. I can tell you why people, because Cuba is small so the American government can say "I don't agree with what you are doing so we are going to make your already poor country poorer," but when the Chinese run over a bunch of demonstrators at Teinamen square the Americans put factories over there! I think this happens becouse the American buisnessmen can get rich, and the American governement does nothing becouse they aren't big enough to push around China, but Cuba on the other hand.... Sure they are generous, the people are, but not thier government. Mr Sinclair also forgets that other countries put its scandels out on the store window too, Canada and its somalia fiasco and Britain and its fiasco's. If the Americans asked for help, Canada would give it in a second. But the Americans don't ask for help, they are capable of helping themselves.

Personnaly I like Americans, they are a nice people, sometimes to patriotic outside of thier own nation which gets them in trouble, but nontheless a good people. But I will never say they are more generous than any other country. What Mr Sinclair has done is put down everyother nation, and the sad thing is he is Canadian. America has many reasons to be proud. They should be proud. Mr Sinclair is blind and doesn't see things strait.....

[Wesreidau]

I always remember a quote from the movie "Gettysburg":

"Any man that judges a nation is a peewit - its the individual that counts"

That is oh so true.

OTOH, I`m a Brit who loves the USA, its people, its short but fascinating history and finally its prices ;)Boy is stuff cheap. Can`t get a decent cup of tea though, still you can`t have everything.

Looking to emigrate to the States in the next year or two, anyone need a computer engineer?

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"No Regrets"

[Fionn]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> The good ol' US of A....world leader...i think that title holds certain responsibilities towards the countries you're the leader of supposedly. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I never remember asking the "good ol' US of A" to be a "world leader". I NEVER remember asking it to stick its nose into EU business.

The USA gets involved in many issues where it isn't invited purely due to national interest. To think that it follows a so-called "ethical foreign policy" is just stupid. So long as oil or votes aren't threatened the USA is quite willing to let civies get butchered. Where oil or domestic votes are threatened it will stick its nose in even if it isn't wanted. ( NOTE... I feel all countries are like this and don't see anything particularly deplorable about it. It is simply realpolitik. However, I don't particularly like it when people mouth "ooh, we're so moral and good" lines which simply aren't true. )

[OsinO]

I haveto agree with Smack. Although the US has helped many countries, just about everytime (if not all) it was for their benefit. Just like the Persion Gulf War. The states didnt fight to help. They fought to make sure the iraqis didnt get ownership of the Kuate oil fields, becuase they knew they would make the prices go higher.

[Neutral Party]

I think Smack got it pretty much right too. For a variety of reasons at this point in history the USA is by far the most powerful nation on earth. However it was not always so and it will not neccessarily always be so. A hundred years ago the honor fell to Britain, with its Navy and Empire "upon which the sun never sets". To most Britons at the time of Victoria's Golden Jubilee, the idea that their nation would sink to it's current place in the World pecking order would be inconceivable.

The USA's current pre-eminence in more sustainable as it is a much greater land with many more natural resources - but it one sense it is similar. It is built on a military/industrial/technological advantage that is becoming increasingly more difficult to maintain. Such is the way of history and there really isn't much that can be done about it. Where will the USA be in a hundred years time in comparison to nations currently "underperforming" with respect to their potential (e.g., Russia, China, Brazil, India) ? Got to be better than Britain - right?

The USA is an imperial power. Is there such a big difference between the crushing of Saddams forces in the Gulf and the crushing of the Mahdi's forces at Omdurman. Both were imperial expeditionary slaughters produced largely by a technology gap.

The motivations for maintaining a Pax Americana are also similar to those for the Pax Britannica of a bygone age. That is to generate profits for the nations' commerce. I believe that this was also the main driving force for the American-funded rebuilding of (Western) Europe and Japan after the war.

Putting a man on the Moon was a spectacular success and produced the collateral benefits of the microelectronics revolution amongst others, but in the long term it can only be judged a missed opportunity. Rather than the first steps in the exploration of interplanetary space, it was a dead end. Yeah the USA beat the USSR - big deal.

What is the legacy of the Space Race? Is it a grand vision for humanity or is it the infinitely corrupt and fundamentally bogus "Star Wars"-driven redistribution of wealth into the pockets of huge corporations and their soon-to-be-employed military cronies.

Bottom line: Americans are nice people - I like them. America is a big vampire that sucks the life-force out of the world, but the Western Europeans are just as bad and so are the Japs.

[This message has been edited by Neutral Party (edited 07-11-2000).]

[Mace]

I agree.

I think it's time for Tasmania to take it's rightful place as next World Power!

[killmore]

So called "generosity" was done in an effort to improve US situation.

1) Strong US dominated Europe was a counter weight to communism. Only poor countries become communist. Countries that became Communist (not by choice) did not receive economic help - where is the "generosity"?

2) Helping Germany was meant to discourage them from staring another war. (and lessen possibility of another war US had to fight with them). Germany was destined to become buffer zone just like Japan. Buffer zone needs to be dominated and cannot be poor. If it would became poor it would become communist.

3) Poor people had no use for US products - restoring Europe meant being able to sell them in the future US made products.

Wake up guys - if it sounds too good to be true it ussually is.

Even helping poor countries in africa is ussually an effort to buy tractors/food from stragling US companies/farmers with taxpayers money and "give it away" to poor people. Basically it is an effort to subsidize own industry - but such subsidy cannot start "subsidy trade war" with other nations.

And if credit is given to poor countries - these countries frequently have to spend most of the money on US products. (Canada frequently does the same thing)

[This message has been edited by killmore (edited 07-11-2000).]

[Formerly Babra]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ncounio:

Therefore in my mind Titan, you are not the one on the narrow path (I was rather thinking of this editorialist...)

Nicolas<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The editorialist, Gordon Sinclair, was a well-known Canadian political correspondent and on-air personality. My granddad used to take me 'round his place in the summer. He died some time ago. That editorial is circa 1972/73 if I'm not mistaken.

[crossfire]

In geography class we had to make a map once of countries that receive generous US support in cash, food, etc.

ALL of these coutries were situated around communist countries (or communist supported countries).

Was it called the Barrier policy? (Can't remember now)

[killmore]

By the way 51% of everything in Canada is owned by US companies...

(I am against USA - just pointing out some facts. People just find convinient to ignore them because it fits their nice clean picture of the world or for propaganda purposes)

[This message has been edited by killmore (edited 07-11-2000).]