Knaust Posted February 8, 2000 Share Posted February 8, 2000 I played or I am currently playing 5 games in Chance Encounter: I as Germans beat Goanna (2 Stugs lost to 5 Shermans) I as Germans playing Eridani (1 Stug lost to 3 Shermans) I as Germans playing iggi-Maragoudakis (2 Stugs lost to 3 Shermans knocked-out,1 Sherman immobilized and 1 Sherman gun-damaged maybe) ….but I think that this scenario is one-sided in favour of the Americans! Why?…I played Berlichtingen(the devil)…outcome? I as Germans lost 3 Stugs in the first 4 turns I as Americans got 3 Stugs in the first 4 turns by applying his own strategy. Which strategy?…try to get concentration of power against the krauts…deploy all 5 Shermans in a position to engage all 3 Stugs at the same time…and the fight will end in most cases with one or two Shermans to no Stugs. Wish to know any opinion. Knaust Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Babra Posted February 8, 2000 Share Posted February 8, 2000 Concentration of effort isn't a glitch, it's just good sense. ------------------ Floreat Jerboa ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Seimerst Posted February 8, 2000 Share Posted February 8, 2000 Either side can win-- as your own experience bears out. The game effectively captures the basic "military math" of better tactics will beat poor tactics. What you are up against is "Seimerst's Colollary Number Five which is: Better tactics with bad luck against poor tactics with good luck makes the result iffy. And iffy is alot of what combat at this level can be and that is what makes this game so great. Napoleon, when his marshals were all pressing their favorite subordinates upon him for promotion, replied when one of them was described as a "good general" that he had plenty of good generals and "was he lucky? I want a lucky general." Others will say you make your own luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Fox Posted February 8, 2000 Share Posted February 8, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>deploy all 5 Shermans in a position to engage all 3 Stugs at the same time<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I am not really qualified to answer this one as I am only up to turn 7 in my first playing of CE. But I would only repeat what my opponent said: "where are your StuGs" . At the moment I have traded 1 Sherman for 1 StuG and that was only because the dumbarse beta TacAI ignored my "boresighted" deployment of the StuG and tried to hose down some irrelevant infantry target. Admittedly while he did concentrate his armour force he did not try to take me on but if he had I was ready for it. Remember CE is a 40 turn scenario, try to use a few more than 4 Personally I think you should still be able to win if you lose every StuG though it would be nice to take out a few Shermans first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Lucke Posted February 8, 2000 Share Posted February 8, 2000 I've played CE as the Germans several times, have won every time, yet have never had my StuG's survive to celibrate our victory. It's all about the infantry! The Wehrmacht has more than enough squad-level anti-tank weapons to win this scenario without armor support. And since we're quoting Nappy; he also said, "luck favors the large battalions." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heavy Bomber Posted February 8, 2000 Share Posted February 8, 2000 I too have won as German in CE. all 3 stugs out by turn 10. 3 sherms KO by Stugs, 2 by way of panzerschreck. Infantry! The queen of the battlefield!!! ------------------ Always Check Your Six! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolColJ Posted February 8, 2000 Share Posted February 8, 2000 I think its the old Close Combat tank phobia lurking CCJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ol' Blood & Guts Posted February 8, 2000 Share Posted February 8, 2000 I played it once where I set up my StuGs on my flanks. One on the right which I hugged the treeline on the right to find a high, hull-down position at the forwardest most crest, one down the center which I quickly ran down the road near the crossroads, and one on the left which I ran up to the outside edge of the church. I knocked out all 5 Shermans within a matter of turns. The AI grouped them all together on the slope on their right flank. Pretty dumb in this case! The StuG up on my right flank had a excellent field of fire on the Shermans. It knocked out 3 Shermans, I believe. The one near the crossroads knocked out the other 2. Didn't even need the one by the church. I was getting hit on, but the shells would richocet off due to my hull-down positions. In fact, the one in the center, shot at one Sherman, knocked it out, and before the remaining Sherman could shoot back, the Tac-AI popped smoke and reversed it back down the hill a bit. Once all 5 Shermans were dead, I just tactically did an infantry assault and wound up chasing the scattered American troops through the woods of the American's right flank. ------------------ "I want you to remember that...no bastard ever won a war...by dying for his country...He won it...by making the other poor dumb bastard...die for his country."--George S. Patton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest scarr Posted February 8, 2000 Share Posted February 8, 2000 I can answer this without reservation, as Ron Alderice kicked my American butt in CE. I lost 5 Shermans to 1 Stug and most of two platoons. But, I did learn alot Steve c. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfe Posted February 9, 2000 Share Posted February 9, 2000 A few tips on killing tanks (in no particular order): Not all of this works all of the time, of course, but it might be some food for thought. Try to maneuver so you can mass your firepower against lone or isolated targets. Don't slug out tank battles toe-to-toe. 'Luck' will play more of a part than skill in this type of battle. Target only one enemy tank at a time with most or all of your tanks. This will help eliminate enemy tanks the fastest. The faster you can whittle down his firepower, the safer your tanks are. Your tanks are going to miss some shots, but so are his. Use your tank's capabilities. Some tanks have better penetrating power at distance than others. Some have more difficulty turning their turrets than others. You can use movement to take advantage of this (though that one is mostly a tip for the US side vs. Tigers and Stugs). Shermans are nasty up close. Stugs have a bit better penetration at range; though with the hill in the middle of CE, this advantage isn't as useful for the German commander. :-( Take the easy kills first. In LD as US, I prefer to target the Stugs first instead of the Tiger. The Tiger can take a lot of punishment; and all the while you're on the receiving end of his fire. Taking your opponent down to only one working tank (the Tiger) reduces his firepower against you tremendously. As von Lucke said: Especially in CE, use (abuse) your Shreck teams to the fullest. Try hiding your tanks behind the patches of forest early on in the game and see how many Sherms you get get rid of by using Shrecks *alone*. It's a lot of fun and great practice. I like to pair my shreck teams; especially in CE where you have so many of them. Sneak (or crawl) each pair of teams into a position where they're going to hide in woods or scattered trees or behind buildings and wait for a tank. 150m is the furthest I like to try to engage tanks with Shrecks. Unhide both teams and have them both target one tank, increasing the liklihood of a kill. Just try to keep the enemy infantry away from your Shreck teams. Your Shrecks will likely get punished for their effort, but they should get off atleast 2 shots (maybe more) at the tank before taking any fire (hopefully . Be sure to button up enemy tanks with fire from squads or MGs before engaging with your Shrecks or tanks. Purposely give the enemy tanks something to shoot at (preferrably away from where your tanks or Shrecks are located). You can feel sorry for your squads *after* you've lit up a few Sherms. Engage tanks from multiple angles. His retargeting takes time and his first shots will be much less accurate. You also get shots at his thinner side armor. Try to get hull down. Yeah, I know. I have trouble with this one too. :-( Give your tanks orders to move up, and then move back into safety. Good timing is important, but hopefully they'll: acquire, fire, and retreat before the enemy can engage. Also pop up in different places; it makes you less predictable and forces your enemy to retarget. He may also think you have more tanks in that area than you really do. Isolate enemy tanks by using smoke to block the sight of as many of his tanks as possible except for the one you're trying to kill. Use your infantry to be sure of where *all* enemy tanks are. Unless you're the one springing them, surprises are no fun. That's all I can think of for now. Do a search on this board. There are a lot of good tactics in various threads. Good luck. Happy hunting. - Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted February 9, 2000 Share Posted February 9, 2000 Hey man nice tactics! Those are really helpful. Well I'm gonna go and study for my exam tomorrow. Gonna work on my webpage after that. ------------------ Visit my webpage! http://cm4mac.tripod.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Captain Foobar Posted February 9, 2000 Share Posted February 9, 2000 Damn, good post! You've inspired me to go give CE one more try! (I havent won yet as Germans ) ------------------ fnord Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goanna Posted February 9, 2000 Share Posted February 9, 2000 Knaust - Regardless of my performance in CE against you as the Americans (which was my first attempt as such) I have won a majority of my CE games when I play as the Germans. In fact, I have another game going with Berli right now with me as the Germans in CE and he did exactly as you suggest and massed all his tanks near the church to concentrate firepower. I had one StuG stuck in the mud moving into position so I have had to take him on with only two (although the stuck one did serve as a juicy decoy - not my preferred use of Herr Poppe). I am currently down to one Stug and he has one M4 left. I don't think either of us has been particularly lucky or unlucky in the game (but he may have another take on that) He may, in fact, still win this game but I beleive that it is wholly possible that I will win it, even against someone as tactically knowledgable as this former marine. The only definitive thing I can say about the beta demo is that I love the schreck in comparison to the zook. Probably why I typically like to play the Germans. ------------------ desert rat wannabe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlichtingen Posted February 9, 2000 Share Posted February 9, 2000 Knaust, The true equalizer is the Schreck and to a lesser extent the Faust. These are the true tank killers. Ask Goanna what happened in one turn to his last two Shermans in Reisberg... to one Schreck team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUST THE COOK Posted February 9, 2000 Share Posted February 9, 2000 My last experience as the Germans in CE? 5 Shermans Killed 0 StuG Killed Strategy?Move one StuG up to the corner of the 2nd house in front of the initial setup area. Position it so he can see the high ground to the left of the crossroads. This provides excellent cover and concealment. When the Sherms head for the high ground, they get picked off as they bare side armor to the StuG. As for the other two? This is the tricky part. Advance them straight toward the hill adjacent to the German high ground. Now the part I found difficult is advancing just far enough to target, but not be easily targeted. Reading the topography to place your armor hull down is a bit tricky. I think the StuG is made perfectly for crestline combat. By the time these two are in position, the first should have two or three kills, at least against the AI anyway. After that it just mop up. I chased guys all the way to the allied edge of the board by the 30th or so turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bauhaus Posted February 9, 2000 Share Posted February 9, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Berlichtingen: Knaust, The true equalizer is the Schreck and to a lesser extent the Faust. These are the true tank killers. Ask Goanna what happened in one turn to his last two Shermans in Reisberg... to one Schreck team <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Hate them, couldn't hate them more. Here a schreck there a schreck everywhere a schreckschreck. I'd much rather face the 88's than the schrecks. They are evil.....like Berl and Goanna. Those two love to schreck me......that sounds really disgusting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knaust Posted February 9, 2000 Author Share Posted February 9, 2000 ok...I wish to try one or two more fights in CE me as american..send me the deploy file...first in first out...thx for your help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knaust Posted February 9, 2000 Author Share Posted February 9, 2000 Uhmmmm….I have heard a lot about tactics….but tactics cant go too far without strategic considerations! So lets have a simple strategic analysis on CE: -objectives in the woods will be clearly and easily held by respective sides - objective near the wheatfield will be easily American because it is very hard for German to go taking it without suffering heavy losses in open field Therefore the struggle will be around the church objective…this for strategy! Now lets apply some tactical hints: - concentration of power: try to deploy 5 Shermans at the same time in a position dominating the german field (yeah…you cant forget that in CE the terrain is generally sloping down from the american side to the german one) - try to screen your Shermans from panzerschrecks with your infantry (I dont think as Berli that schrecks and fausts be equalizer here if you have a good screen..BTW…Berli in his game with me couldnt hit any Shermans with those equalizers ) - Shermans are very good at pounding infantry because being plenty of HE ammo so they will be very useful against infantry and above all schrecks in the church (the key objective!) - try to get first the big things so go for tanks first Now you have 5 Shermans against 3 Stugs…why not apply concentration of power?…why not apply this principle from a dominating position?…why not apply it at the very start? And now the last hint…..BE LUCKY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s bakker Posted February 9, 2000 Share Posted February 9, 2000 Because i'm a lamer i only played CE once against the AI as yet. I won though ... . Since i knew it was a meeting engagement i raced the stugs to the central crest line. Very nice field of fire. The infantry headed for the forest on the hill on the right and the church on the left (via the cover there, not along the road). I knocked out four advancing shermans quickly while loosing two stugs. (lucky me ) The remaining stug i withdrew from the crest and had him rerout through the village to prowl on the remining sherman, which was positioned almost on the edge of the map on a rise left besides the road. Luckely for me the american infantry were checked by my infantry firing from the hill and the church, so the stug was able to surprise the sherman and knock him out. The rest of the battle i just let the americans advance on my strong defence positions and thus weakend them considerably. In the last ten turns i swiped their remaining forces out oof the village. They still held the left hill though. Alas a major axis victory. Losses: 48 german men over 151 american 2 stugs over 5 shermans and 2 mortars . Maybe it's time i took on an opponent of flesh and blood and get my ass kicked .. grtz, s bakker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GriffinCheng Posted February 10, 2000 Share Posted February 10, 2000 I also won my CE game as German at 1st try, I have won as US before though. In short, capture and hold 3 out of 4 victory locations. 78 points to German and 22 to US. KIA count 33 German vs 44 German. Even though all my STuG are "hidden" in the southeastern corner, I still lose 2 STuG, one to Sherman and 1 to infranty assault (gun damaged earlier by Sherman) . The 3rd one gets bogged down and immobilized. (darn!!!) US loses 1 Sherman to STuG, 3 lost to schrecks. (hurray!) The last Sherman is hit by STuG but is still very much alive and firing till game ends (after several unsuccessful piece-meal attempts to knock it out). Concentrate most of the troops in the forest in the right. I place some squads as sentries near to the edge of the wood. Remaining 1.5 platoons of green/conscript troops plus 1 schrek are hidden in scattered trees behind the church. US keep sending in piece-meal, mortars first, HQ next and lastly infranty squads and all slautered by my defenders hidden in woods. All 3 Shermans are nailed by schrecks when approach to the woods within 110m. However, the Shermans cause heavy causalities to Germans staying at the edge of woods. I am amazed by the newbies on my left flank. They are pushed back at first but still can recapture the church at the end since the American do not whole-heartly go pursuit. The lone schreck luckily knock out one of the Sherman. Griffin @ work [This message has been edited by GriffinCheng (edited 02-09-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Tom Posted February 10, 2000 Share Posted February 10, 2000 In CE I kill 50% PLUS Shermans with Schrecks. StuG's are not great for Tankilling, nor are they very much good for Infantry support. They should have focused on one and stuck with it. Usually, I have StuG's positioned as threats. The enemy knows that they are at the other side of the hill, mutually supporting eachother so they cannot send in their armour to attack without it getting in close in range of my Stug'S and Schrecks. It is pretty easy to sneak up a Schreck and nail a Sherman compared to moving a StuG into great firing positions vs. 5 Shermans. However, Sherman's are great Tankillers (at least vs. StuG's) and Infantry support. Just rely on numbers of guns. Have every position of advance covered by at least 2 Guns and your enemy is toast. Sure, Shermans don't last too long, but, numbers can make up for their deficiency. Plus, don't move Shermans ANYWHERE near uncleared buildings or woods, those pesky Schrecks get them every time. For Last Defense, I have no idea how to win that scenario as the Germans. I tried the slow and cautious, but, my tanks were shredded, then, without any AT support my Infantry was cut to ribbons. One thought is to hold everything off until the Hellcats show up, get the StuG's and Tiger in great firing positions, pound the heck out of them, then use them and your infantry to level the city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Username Posted February 10, 2000 Share Posted February 10, 2000 86 to 14 I lost first stug almost immediately. I then knocked out 4 shermans by hugging the hills. I knocked out last sherman as he took out another stug at close range. Pretty wild to watch. After that it was just advance the volks and smgs covered by MGs. All those Panzershrecks and no shermans to shoot at. Absolutely the best game and can't wait for the product. By the way I am Lewis_PE#1 from wings board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GriffinCheng Posted February 10, 2000 Share Posted February 10, 2000 Major Tom, I have to agree. However, the last Sherman in my 1st German CE seems to stuck by Int+/Wis+ so it stays near to the house opposite to the church which overlooks the open grounds and protected by 2 squads + 1 HMG. I try to send in the schrecks and once they are in open, they get chopped down. Worse, Volks and SMG squad in beta demo have no incentive to fire their frausts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GriffinCheng Posted February 10, 2000 Share Posted February 10, 2000 Major Tom, I have to agree. However, the last Sherman in my 1st German CE seems to stuck by Int+/Wis+ so it stays near to the house opposite to the church which overlooks the open grounds and protected by 2 squads + 1 HMG. I try to send in the schrecks and once they are in open, they get chopped down. Worse, Volks and SMG squad in beta demo have no incentive to fire their frausts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borgiax Posted February 10, 2000 Share Posted February 10, 2000 Well, i never lost a game against the AI. My last after action report in CE was this : Axis : 26 cas (7KIA), 1 vehicle KO, 228 men OK, score 92 US:194 cas (53KIA), 21 captured, 3 mortars destroyed, 5 vehicles KO, 17 men OK, score : 8 Well, now i want to play against a real player to see if the AI sucks or if i'm a military genius ------------------ Obersturmfuhrer Borgiax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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