3 related topics, but split: WEGO vs RTS?

[markshot]

I play WEGO.  How do any of you play anything beyond TINY in RTS mode?  (It would be like Blitz Chess for me.)

Thanks.

[landser]

I've dabbled in real-time, but it's much more messy, and my brain can't handle it. I watched a video on youtube the other day of a player playing the airfield battle from the Task Force Thunder campaign in real time and I could hardly take it. So inefficient and sloppy, with units forgotten about doing nothing, needless casualties and lack of real co-ordination. And just watching videos of Combat Mission is difficult for me as I am constantly rolling my mouse wheel to change the zoom to no avail since I'm watching a video. Derp derp.

On the other hand, the real-time player can more quickly react to events (though the real time factor means this only happens where you are watching) and can more quickly correct blunders.

No sir, give me WEGO everytime. In real time I miss so much that's going on, which aside from the tactical ramifications, is just undesirable from an enjoyment point of view for me. Actually WEGO is for me the best wargame system ever. As I like to say, going from tactical genius to nervous spectator never gets old. It's a system of action and consequence and frankly it's brilliant.

Edited October 28, 2019 by landser

[A Canadian Cat]

You probably want to hear from some real time players to affirm why they like it. I'm not that guy instead I'll join @landser in a couple of comments.

29 minutes ago, landser said:

And just watching videos of Combat Mission is difficult for me as I am constantly rolling my mouse wheel to change the zoom to no avail since I'm watching a video. Derp derp.

LOL I do the same.

29 minutes ago, landser said:

is just undesirable from an enjoyment point of view

Oh yes, for sure. Even if I could command OK from realtime - which I cannot - I would miss so much and constantly want to rewind and play back parts.

[markshot]

I am right now playing two WEGO style games and one RTS.

WEGO = CMx2(WWII) and Alea Jacta Est (ancient Rome operation; a turn is one month) [AGE engine from former AGEOD]

RTS = GTMF/GTOS

In general, I find WEGO much more relaxing and contemplative.  AJE does not have movies, but it has an event log which covers every major event over the month.  There are informational screens and overlays.  Actual battles provide full AARs which are initially gibberish until you learn how to read them.

I have played Panther Games (RDOA/HTTR/COTA/BFTB/CO2) and the GT games above.  I think RTS games to allow for strategic play as opposed to click fest require:  (1)  High-level intelligent agents which work with/for the player (your subordinates) and  (2)  a well designed order delay system that heavily penalizes micro-managing.

Edited October 28, 2019 by markshot

[Warts 'n' all]

WEGO is what got me hooked on Beyond Overlord.

[Pelican Pal]

In the WW2 games I generally play WeGo and in the modern games real-time.

Modern is problematic for WeGo for a few reasons:

1. Being seen = being killed

To an extant that is true in WW2 as well, but its a more prevalent problem in modern. The 60 second turns, lack of SOPs, and the TacAI being trash at anything other than being reactive makes WeGo into a micro mess.

2. Loss averse mission design

Generally you aren't fighting a battle where you expect large losses. This means that each individual loss is much more painful. Any "weird result" from the tacAI can completely ruin a scenario.

3. Prevalence of MOUT

Urban combat/close range combat happens much more often and each soldier is better armed. Relatively minor issues can turn a safe walk into a massacre.


Three examples.

A squad decided to exit a building that was under fire towards the enemy. Any rational group of men would remember that they'd spent the last half-hour clearing the area to their rear and that there was an entire platoon of friendlies in that direction. Instead they ran forward into the line of fire of a 20mm gun and were quickly vaporized. 

A T-72 attempted to shoot and scoot. Appearing on the hill it quickly fired on and destroyed a Stryker, The vehicle proceeded to wait an additional ~6 seconds before retreating and was promptly killed by a Javelin.

A squad advancing down an alley had the first man killed as he entered a crossing. The rest of the squad proceeded to run forward at even greater speed into the selfsame kill zone. Turning the bad luck of one man into a slaughter.

 

Generally you can get around these with copious micro, but its easier and more reliable to just play real-time.

 

[markshot]

Pelican Pal,

How do you manage to be all the places which you need to be to avert AI stupidity?

Thanks.

[Pelican Pal]

I pause quite often and take stock of what is happening.

I also try to keep a mental map of "main efforts". The Abrams is engaging enemy armor, 1st and 2nd platoon are clearing a housing block, and 3rd platoon is covering the open ground. I'll periodically check all of these to see if anything needs changed.

[Blazing 88's]

Long, long ago, I put duct tape over top of the RTS button to prevent it from ever being used again...

Edited October 31, 2019 by Blazing 88's

[DMS]

Select units, press pause, give commands, unpause. It's realistic when you haven't time to manage each squad.