slapahoe tribe Posted September 22, 2000 Share Posted September 22, 2000 I also notice there is no shotgun.nothing better for that close up encounter.very nice game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
virtualfreak Posted September 22, 2000 Share Posted September 22, 2000 Good point,You here the americans shout MEDIC! during the heat of battle but you never see them. I am also curous if the German army had any field medics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schrullenhaft Posted September 22, 2000 Share Posted September 22, 2000 The German army did have field medics. Modeling medics in the game would be a bit pointless. You'll notice at the end of the game that a lot of your casualties aren't KIA. I don't think that modeling a medic would benefit the game at all (especially since they are ideally considered a non-combatant), after all there aren't a bunch of HQ company guys there either (cooks, supply, armorer, repair shop, etc.). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pham911 Posted September 22, 2000 Share Posted September 22, 2000 I agree it wouldn't be good to put in. The main thing you should be concerned about is if your men are functional or not, not worrying about if your men are being cared for by trained medical personel. I have yet to hear one remark on his triage experiences, good or bad. It's a wargame, not a really real reality simulator. If anyone feels that's wrong and the game really does need medics, please recite the following mantra: They are not real people. They are not real people. They are not... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanaka Posted September 22, 2000 Share Posted September 22, 2000 The medics are in the rear with the gear Don´t wery they will be there, shortly AFTER the battle is finished. Meybe turn 31... who knows !? As for the shotgun see this link http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/Forum1/HTML/010554.html João Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pvt. Ryan Posted September 22, 2000 Share Posted September 22, 2000 Where are the medics? They are on Wall Street. Where are the sanitators? When I hear the Germans shout that I expect to see a guy show up with a broom and a big can of disinfectant. [This message has been edited by Pvt. Ryan (edited 09-22-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Michael emrys Posted September 22, 2000 Share Posted September 22, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pvt. Ryan: Where are the sanitators? When I hear the Germans shout that I expect to see a guy show up with a broom and a big can of disinfectant. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Aitken Posted September 22, 2000 Share Posted September 22, 2000 In the same way that you don't see individual casualties, neither do you see medics tending to them. This is outside the scope of the game, but in reality it would be happening during the battle. David ------------------ They lost all of their equipment and had to swim in under machine gun fire. As they struggled in the water, Gardner heard somebody say, "Perhaps we're intruding, this seems to be a private beach." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daveman Posted September 22, 2000 Share Posted September 22, 2000 It would be "neat" to see them, but with games lasting around 30 turns (30 minutes) I don't think a medic would serve much purpose in that time. I think anyone with injuries that could be tended to in that much time are already combat capable. I'd rather have bagpipers for my Brits before medics anyway ------------------ “Out in front every one is holding out. Every one. My grenadiers and my engineers and my tank crews – they’re all holding their ground. Not a single man is leaving his post. They are lying silent in their foxholes for they are dead.” – Gen. Fritz Bayerlein on an order to hold his position Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted September 22, 2000 Share Posted September 22, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Daveman: It would be "neat" to see them, but with games lasting around 30 turns (30 minutes) I don't think a medic would serve much purpose in that time. I think anyone with injuries that could be tended to in that much time are already combat capable. I'd rather have bagpipers for my Brits before medics anyway <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I'm not so sure about that? Maybe this is not realistic but I would like to see (for a change ) the number of my active guys in a squad go UP once and not down. I don't need to see medics to see this happen, but maybe Once per game a squad that went down to 5 ready and 5 casualities'could' go back UP to 6 ready and 4 causalities after 5-10 minutes, they way things are now casualties pile up and they are a ONE way street to a deadbody laying on the ground. If medics were to be modeled, (and I really doubt they will be) maybe the abstraction would be just be for the medics to patch up the (maybe) 1 in 100 guys that they can actually just wrap a bandage around (whatever parts needs it "Oh MY leg!" ) and get back into action in under ten minutes? I think now I'll go back to ranting in the "Gamey Recon Thread" Thanks anyway... -tom w Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pham911 Posted September 22, 2000 Share Posted September 22, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by aka_tom_w: I'm not so sure about that? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> You're not so sure about that either, apparently. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Maybe this is not realistic but I would like to see (for a change ) the number of my active guys in a squad go UP once and not down. I don't need to see medics to see this happen, but maybe Once per game a squad that went down to 5 ready and 5 casualities'could' go back UP to 6 ready and 4 causalities after 5-10 minutes, they way things are now casualties pile up and they are a ONE way street to a deadbody laying on the ground. If medics were to be modeled, (and I really doubt they will be) maybe the abstraction would be just be for the medics to patch up the (maybe) 1 in 100 guys that they can actually just wrap a bandage around (whatever parts needs it "Oh MY leg!" ) and get back into action in under ten minutes? I think now I'll go back to ranting in the "Gamey Recon Thread" Thanks anyway... -tom w <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I think that since the squads are abstracted, it would be safe to assume that men become casualties only when they are rendered combat incapable. In other words, only when they are injured to such a degree that they can't be patched up in under 30 minutes. Men are not usually treated for incapacitating wounds and returned to the same fire-fight that they got wounded in. I believe that during operations you do get some trickle back of men to your weakened squads. And I think that the guy who's yelling about his leg is actually pleasantly suprised that his buddy found it for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted September 22, 2000 Share Posted September 22, 2000 Medics would be an interesting addition but would they add to game play, probably not. One thing that is not model correctly in this great game is the buddy system. When a man was wounded one or more buddies would take him to the rear. So for every wounded man 1 or more buddies were taken out of the fight. This was studied by SLA Marshal and was a point in limiting the attacking (and defending ability) of US and other allied units. I would presume the case was the same in Axis units? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pham911 Posted September 22, 2000 Share Posted September 22, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hans: Medics would be an interesting addition but would they add to game play, probably not. One thing that is not model correctly in this great game is the buddy system. When a man was wounded one or more buddies would take him to the rear. So for every wounded man 1 or more buddies were taken out of the fight. This was studied by SLA Marshal and was a point in limiting the attacking (and defending ability) of US and other allied units. I would presume the case was the same in Axis units?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I'm pretty sure the Axis would just roll over thier casualties with tanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Aitken Posted September 22, 2000 Share Posted September 22, 2000 I hope that was a joke. ------------------ They lost all of their equipment and had to swim in under machine gun fire. As they struggled in the water, Gardner heard somebody say, "Perhaps we're intruding, this seems to be a private beach." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pham911 Posted September 22, 2000 Share Posted September 22, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by David Aitken: I hope that was a joke. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Yes and no. I don't think they always did it, but I read in a Ambrose book(Band of Brothers?) about retreating germans walking over and running tanks over thier dead. It was a joke insofar as casualties refers to both KIA and wounded. Although, now that I have to explain it, I suppose it wasn't much of a joke at that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntelWeenie Posted September 22, 2000 Share Posted September 22, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hans: Medics would be an interesting addition but would they add to game play, probably not. One thing that is not model correctly in this great game is the buddy system. When a man was wounded one or more buddies would take him to the rear. So for every wounded man 1 or more buddies were taken out of the fight. This was studied by SLA Marshal and was a point in limiting the attacking (and defending ability) of US and other allied units. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I remember reading somewhere or another that this was part of the justification the Japanese used for fielding their crappy 6.5mm rifle ammo. It was more likely to injure than kill, but they figured that was OK because taking care of the wounded requires more resources than burying the dead. ------------------ Canada: Where men were men, unless they were horses. -Dudley Do-right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schrullenhaft Posted September 22, 2000 Share Posted September 22, 2000 That's what I've heard too (especially in regards to current NATO 5.56mm rounds, in addition to their lighter weight compared to 7.62mm). Supposedly it is more advantageous to cause severe casualties than to actually kill. You get the psychological effect of soldiers hearing their buddies in pain and the time and attention to getting them back into cover and having their wounds tended to. Instead of attacking/defending they're concentrating on their wounded (except in the most dire circumstances). This makes casualties a significant force reducer beyond those hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Posted September 22, 2000 Share Posted September 22, 2000 Hmm, I was a medic in the German Bundeswehr, and guess what; we were not supposed to get into the main battle line and evacuate under fire. There is no sense in doing this...instead of a dead soldier it would be a dead soldier AND a dead medic. We had this little "Red Cross" armlet, but this would not save us in a firefight (maybe the Uzi would..) In CMs scope, medics would be highly unrealistic. Fred, former medic ------------------ "I got signals, I got readings, in front and behind of us!" - PFC Hudson on LV-426 mission [This message has been edited by Fred (edited 09-22-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tss Posted September 22, 2000 Share Posted September 22, 2000 Fred wrote: I was a medic in the German Bundeswehr, and guess what; we were not supposed to get into the main battle line and evacuate under fire. Some medics did that and ended with much respect and medals or being dead. A platoon with a medic who would be ready to risk his life when retrieving the wounded would be a happy platoon. However, most medic had more self-preservation instinct and stayed in the rear. One quite interesting case was a Finnish military _doctor_ (his rank was captain or major, I can't remember and his name also escapes me this moment) who at least three times rescued severely wounded men from between the lines when no-one else dared to go. In one case the wounded was a SS-men who had been caught in barbed wire. What makes this case more impressing was the fact that the doctor was Jewish. The Germans awarded him an Iron Cross for that and for succesfully evacuating his hospital when Soviets counter attacked. However, the doctor refused to take the award. BTW, there was another Finnish Jew who refused to accept an Iron Cross: Major Salomon Klass relieved an encircled SS batallion with his batallion. - Tommi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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