Scenarios Very Short

[Swastakowey]

I have played Combat Mission Normandy and all expansions for a long time now under version 3. I recently got Red Thunder with Version 4 and I notice an annoying trend which I did not notice in Normandy. Every Scenario ends in less than half the time allocated. By "end" I mean the enemy has been thoroughly defeated (or I have) and there is still 55 minutes on the clock. 

I play on the elite realism setting. Now at first I thought I could just ask for cease fire when it seemed like it was over, but then I realized a lot of scenarios have reinforcements or AI counter attacks and with 55 minutes on the clock it could very well happen. So instead if have to fast forward for 55 or so turns where nothing but maybe a rifle shot here and there. 

Is this a Red Thunder scenario problem or are the V4 changes at fault? I notice my men fire more shots per enemy casualty and both my men and the enemies retreat under fire more readily but I didn't think it would be a big impact on scenario timing. 

For reference (from memory)  the scenarios that stick out was myth of invincibility scenario, playing as Soviets and after I beat back the enemy assault including the tigers and half tracks and sat there for a while taking pot shots and survivors.

Another was Angriff where I defeated the germans and then sat there for a while where nothing happened only to ceasefire after waiting ages only to see they just got reinforcements. But this is the only scenario where waiting would have netted a bit more action. 

Eye of the needle was the one that had a very long time without action before the timer went to 0 and scenario ended. 

In Normandy I did not have this problem, usually the enemy surrendered if defeated enough (not instantly but not stubbornly holding) and usually scenarios ended pretty close to the timer end. 

Is it just my perception, V4 or Red Thunder? 

[George MC]

Can't speak about the specifics re the scenarios you cite.

By way of explanation there has been a lot of discussion in the past about scenario time length. There was a view, expressed by many players, they wanted more time to complete scenarios. As a result of these discussion designers will oft time allocate a longer time for the scenario to be played out to accommodate this request from players.

Another view could be you are just to good at playing and hence decimated the enemy in a quicker time than foreseen by the designer, or in playtests, hence the gap between you "winning" and the enemy getting back up.

I'l admit to having both issues happen to scenarios I have designed. Re the second issue I do try to give the player some hint that more trouble maybe on the horizon e.g. player has to attack to seize objective, then organise defence once objective is taken tor epel enemy attack. This means you may have a "tactical pause" where not much happens but this is time for the player to re-org to ensure they have a chance of repelling an enemy attack. I do though try to make this clear in the briefing.

So I guess it's not a V4 issue but perhaps more down to a scenario design which may affect larger (potentially more complex) scenarios where estimating times for key events happening on the CM battlefield can be more problematic for the designer (mind we don't have reinforcement triggers - as yet - which would certainly alleviate the second issue).

[nightops]

39 minutes ago, Swastakowey said:

I have played Combat Mission Normandy and all expansions for a long time now under version 3. I recently got Red Thunder with Version 4 and I notice an annoying trend which I did not notice in Normandy. Every Scenario ends in less than half the time allocated. By "end" I mean the enemy has been thoroughly defeated (or I have) and there is still 55 minutes on the clock. 

I play on the elite realism setting. Now at first I thought I could just ask for cease fire when it seemed like it was over, but then I realized a lot of scenarios have reinforcements or AI counter attacks and with 55 minutes on the clock it could very well happen. So instead if have to fast forward for 55 or so turns where nothing but maybe a rifle shot here and there. 

Is this a Red Thunder scenario problem or are the V4 changes at fault? I notice my men fire more shots per enemy casualty and both my men and the enemies retreat under fire more readily but I didn't think it would be a big impact on scenario timing. 

For reference (from memory)  the scenarios that stick out was myth of invincibility scenario, playing as Soviets and after I beat back the enemy assault including the tigers and half tracks and sat there for a while taking pot shots and survivors.

Another was Angriff where I defeated the germans and then sat there for a while where nothing happened only to ceasefire after waiting ages only to see they just got reinforcements. But this is the only scenario where waiting would have netted a bit more action. 

Eye of the needle was the one that had a very long time without action before the timer went to 0 and scenario ended. 

In Normandy I did not have this problem, usually the enemy surrendered if defeated enough (not instantly but not stubbornly holding) and usually scenarios ended pretty close to the timer end. 

Is it just my perception, V4 or Red Thunder? 

 

Happens to me with a lot of scenarios which is why I modify them. I just played Studienka which is fantastic scenario but which abruptly ended at about the 1:30 mark of a 3 hour scenario. I was expecting at least another big wave of Soviets. Anyway, try RDM - Angriff for a challenge, no early finish with that one.

[Xorg_Xalargsky]

1 hour ago, nightops said:

Happens to me with a lot of scenarios which is why I modify them. I just played Studienka which is fantastic scenario but which abruptly ended at about the 1:30 mark of a 3 hour scenario. I was expecting at least another big wave of Soviets. Anyway, try RDM - Angriff for a challenge, no early finish with that one.

Yes, that's something quite remarkable about Combat Mission scenarios, each and every one is open to modification by the player!!

[ASL Veteran]

If you were playing Eye of the Needle as the German then once the Soviet assault force is destroyed there won't be much happening.  The problem is that if the Soviets are going to be successful they need the full time allocated in order to capture the town objective on the German side of the map so both an AI Soviet player and a human Soviet player will need every minute of time the scenario allows.  If the player manages to destroy the assault force early then you should be able to cease fire.  Sometimes it can take the AI a while to get into attack position though so you don't want to do it too early, but once an initial 'something' happens then you should be okay after maybe a twenty minute wait to cease fire.  There are a few reinforcements that the Soviets get but I don't think anything else comes in after the thirty minute mark.  AI attack plans may also have troops that will be positioned in overwatch or support locations that are designed to bring fire upon known defensive positions, but if you alter the defense significantly or if the overwatch force has taken casualties or were forced to retreat then they will just sit back in locations that you may not be able to see unless you move your defenders out to hunt for them.

[kevinkin]

I agree with everything above. I good player, especially when on defense against the attacking AI, will often win the battle relatively quickly. My sense is this more likely to happen in tank heavy scenarios. One solution over the years has been to post two files - one to be played as the attacker and another as the defender vs the AI. Some have even posted a third for H2H play. Balancing is tricky. But I do not think those observations are related to v 4.0 per se. 

Kevin

[Sgt.Squarehead]

If you click the 'Scenario Editor' tab in game and mess around with some of the settings in there for say, three to six months, you'll find you can have all manner of different battles that will last just as long as you want. 

[Swastakowey]

Cheers guys.