Where are the Russian HMG teams??

[cbennett88]

Has anyone noticed that the Russians don't seem to get the use of infantry carried HMG's?

The US has the option of 50cal HMG teams. They may even have the option of dismounting them from Humvees(although I haven't figured out how to do it). But...I have looked at the choices in QB and I have not found any option for Russian HMGs. I have not even seen them as part of the TO&E of full formation units(like battalions) 

It's NOT like they don't have any in service...

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kord_machine_gun

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSV_machine_gun

[HUSKER2142]

cbennett88

These HMG have in the battalions on APC, in the motorized infantry company .But in the game they are unfortunately not available.Promised in the future to improve TO&E .

^{Эти пулемёты есть в батальонах на БТР , в мотострелковых ротах . Но в игре они к сожалению отсутствую .В будущем обещали поправить .}

[cbennett88]

Their omission is a serious handicap in MOUT fighting.

I haven't figured out how to get a BTR up 6 flights of stairs...

[HerrTom]

16 minutes ago, cbennett88 said:

Their omission is a serious handicap in MOUT fighting.

I haven't figured out how to get a BTR up 6 flights of stairs...

Easy! In pieces  

[cbennett88]

 (Hands clapping!!)

Ok...but where do my men get the wrenches and screwdrivers?? 

[akd]

2 hours ago, HUSKER2142 said:

cbennett88

These HMG have in the battalions on APC, in the motorized infantry company .But in the game they are unfortunately not available.Promised in the future to improve TO&E .

^{Эти пулемёты есть в батальонах на БТР , в мотострелковых ротах . Но в игре они к сожалению отсутствую .В будущем обещали поправить .}

Where in the motor rifle battalion are they held? (Currently available information does not indicate these are organic to motor rifle battalions.) Who operates them?  Do the operators give up other roles to operate these weapons?

[HerrTom]

28 minutes ago, akd said:

Where in the motor rifle battalion are they held? (Currently available information does not indicate these are organic to motor rifle battalions.) Who operates them?  Do the operators give up other roles to operate these weapons?

My guess is they may augment the weapons platoon either replacing the tripod-mounted PKMs or AGS systems, probably on a piecemeal basis.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but crew served M2s don't really serve an organic role in US battalions either, do they?

[akd]

They do, in the IBCT infantry battalion assault platoons.  The platoon is allocated one vehicle-mounted M2 and one tripod-mounted M2 (ditto for Mk. 19).

Edited January 17, 2017 by akd

[Michael Emrys]

2 hours ago, cbennett88 said:

Ok...but where do my men get the wrenches and screwdrivers??

We don' need no stinkin' wrenches and screwdrivers! Do things Russian way: a few kilos of TNT in the right place and go up six flights easy!

Michael

[Ivanov]

The Russian machine gun teams available in CMBS are called PKP or PKM and you can pick them from the specialist team list in QB setting.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pecheneg_machine_gun

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PK_machine_gun

Edited January 17, 2017 by Ivanov

[MikeyD]

TO&E master Steve sometimes runs into a dilemma where there's supposedly some weapon system in service but it appears to be not issued to the troops. Sometimes its being held at division level to be portioned out. Sometimes the troops simply don't like a certain weapon and it gets stored at depot. I don't know if that applies to this case.

I heard rumors the CM team is debating what to do with the US Marine M32 multiple grenade launcher in the coming CMBS module. When M32 showed up in CMSF a few years back the Marines were taking initial delivery of the weapon. But they've since fallen out of love with it, they'd rather have their riflemen carrying rifles than that thing. Just forget about it? Maybe BFC will need to model the short barrel version M32A1 for the game, which the Marines recently took up. But where does it go in the TO&E?

Edited January 17, 2017 by MikeyD

[HerrTom]

32 minutes ago, MikeyD said:

TO&E master Steve sometimes runs into a dilemma where there's supposedly some weapon system in service but it appears to be not issued to the troops. Sometimes its being held at division level to be portioned out. Sometimes the troops simply don't like a certain weapon and it gets stored at depot. I don't know if that applies to this case.

I heard rumors the CM team is debating what to do with the US Marine M32 multiple grenade launcher in the coming CMBS module. When M32 showed up in CMSF a few years back the Marines were taking initial delivery of the weapon. But they've since fallen out of love with it, they'd rather have their riflemen carrying rifles than that thing. Just forget about it? Maybe BFC will need to model the short barrel version M32A1 for the game, which the Marines recently took up. But where does it go in the TO&E?

Thanks for the info Mikey.  We can gather that at least Ukraine and the Separtists like to use it from the numerous videos showing crew served Dushkas and NSVs in the conflict, so it may not be quite like the M32.

[HUSKER2142]

7 hours ago, akd said:

Where in the motor rifle battalion are they held? (Currently available information does not indicate these are organic to motor rifle battalions.) Who operates them?  Do the operators give up other roles to operate these weapons?

In the 4th platoon, enough to replace the MMG on HMG and motorized infantry company on APCs will be put in order according to the TOE. Personnel from other platoons is not used to serve HMG. But already in the motorized infantry company on IFV, HMG may be involved as strengthening company. And maintenance personnel engaged in machine guns from a company at the discretion of the company commander.

^{В 4м взводе , достаточно заменить единые пулемёты на крупнокалиберные пулемёты и мотострелковая рота на БТР будет приведена в порядок согласно ОШС . Л/С из других взводов не задействован в обслуживании HMG . А вот уже в мотострелковых ротах на БМП , крупнокалиберный пулемёт может задействован как усиление подразделения . И обслуживанием пулемётов занимается личный состав из роты по усмотрению командира роты .} 

Edited January 18, 2017 by HUSKER2142

[cbennett88]

3 hours ago, Ivanov said:

The Russian machine gun teams available in CMBS are called PKP or PKM and you can pick them from the specialist team list in QB setting.

@Ivanov That wasn't my question. Those are only medium machine guns. I specifically asked about Heavy MG's.

Try using one of those MMG's on a light armored vehicle like a Stryker or MTLB, much less chew through a concrete building to get at the troops hiding inside. The penetration of 12.7mm rds vs 7.62mm is substantially different. Russia DOES HAVE 12.7mm MGs(the ones I listed). They may even still be using DShKs...which are even MORE POWERFUL(12.7mm x108)

My question still stands...WHY does the US get them but not the Russians(and probably the UKR..I didn't check...) 

1 hour ago, MikeyD said:

TO&E master Steve sometimes runs into a dilemma where there's supposedly some weapon system in service but it appears to be not issued to the troops. Sometimes its being held at division level to be portioned out. Sometimes the troops simply don't like a certain weapon and it gets stored at depot. I don't know if that applies to this case.

I understand this aspect but does anyone really think Russian commanders would NOT use the HMGs they have sitting in the armory?? Watch news footage from ANY war zone in the last 15 years and you see them EVERYWHERE(especially DShK's!

[Ivanov]

29 minutes ago, cbennett88 said:

@Ivanov That wasn't my question. Those are only medium machine guns. I specifically asked about Heavy MG's.

OK. Well in general modern armies wouldn't employ the heavy machine guns with their infantry teams. You may see them in some irregular conflicts, with more unprofessional/irregular belligerents, that scrap heavy machine guns some older vehicles. But modern armies field medium machine guns because they allow them to be more mobile in the field. I'm surprised that US player has an option of purchasing .50 Caliber Machine Gun. I haven't seen that before.

[cbennett88]

@Ivanov There's no argument that "humping" the 50cal(or any HMG)  is a bitch. I know so from my time in the US Army.  

But I disagree on whether they are still in use by modern military...especially in MOUT or defensive battles. Although MOST are mounted on vehicles, the US has found them very useful in ground mount. Nothing short of a gatling gun will get the enemy's attention faster than a HMG shooting at you!

I could show you footage of Russian HMGs in ground use in Ukraine...but obviously nothing that explicitly shows Russian troops using them(b/c they are NOT "really" there, are they? Lol).

 

 

[JUAN DEAG]

On 1/17/2017 at 6:15 PM, cbennett88 said:

They may even still be using DShKs...which are even MORE POWERFUL(12.7mm x108)

NSV, Kord, DShKM, are all the same caliber (12.7x108mm).

On 1/17/2017 at 6:15 PM, cbennett88 said:

My question still stands...WHY does the US get them but not the Russians(and probably the UKR..I didn't check...) 

Same story with UKR, no heavy machine gun.  I'm not satisfied with weak capitalist heavy machine gun cartridge.

[cbennett88]

@JUAN DEAG Thank you! You are correct. I had the DshK confused with the KPV..which is the more powerful 14.5mm. I just read up on it. Would you believe that the round has a lethal range of 8 KM!!

[Erwin]

Re : US Marine M32 multiple grenade launcher not being used so much.

What made it unpopular?  (We love it in CMSF lol.)

[cool breeze]

Kinda easy to imagine how it was better in the game than the troops would like it in real life.  I mean in the game it was kind of overpowered, your whole squad or more would know right where the enemy was and immediately start plastering the HE rain onto that 8x8m square, which would break or destroy the enemy fast enough that the ammo usage was sustainable. 

However the basic idea brought me immediately back to some of those long ass JasonC lectures about how its not about rate of fire, but about effective ammo usage, because there is generally plenty of time to shoot the ammo.  And from that perspective the M32 doesn't add anything but weight, as they were/are already able to shoot the same grenades.

 

I think if IRL our marine squads were fighting syrian or russian squads instead of more irregular forces, the burst power of the M32 would have been more appreciated?

Edited January 21, 2017 by cool breeze