When did it start to snow in the Ardennes in december 1944 ?

[Lille Fiskerby]

I've seen pictures from 20-12 without snow and pictures from 25-12 with snow so my guess would be between these two dates but when exactly. can anyone tell me that ?

[Wicky]

Depends where & when - in the highlands/hills it more readily snowed, while in lower laying regions it was more sleety/rain.  

Weather Effects During the Battle of the Bulge and Normandy Invasion

Edited August 24, 2016 by Wicky

[Lille Fiskerby]

I'm mostly interested in the St. Vith area, BTW started the courage conquers campaign and on the 23rd their is snow on the ground.

[Wicky]

Have a look at pages 8, 11,12, 13, 14 & 15 in the linked PDF

Edited August 24, 2016 by Wicky

[Lille Fiskerby]

 

2 minutes ago, Wicky said:

Have a look at pages 11,12 & 13 in the linked PDF

Thanks for responding Wicky but I cant find the linked PDF.

[Lille Fiskerby]

Sorry, found it !!

[Wicky]

Weather Effects During the Battle of the Bulge and Normandy Invasion

[Lille Fiskerby]

Thanks for the PDF, on page 13 it says: quote-

By the 22d, competing weather systems from Russia and the Atlantic had brought on a hodgepodge of snow, blizzards, fog, and rain. In the north, the Sixth Panzer Army was bogged down by rain and mud. In the south, the Fifth Panzer Army was hampered in its swing around Bastogne by fog and snow. Along the German supply roads beyond the Eifel, the snow fell continuously.'

[Pak40]

I think snow was very spotty over the region so you can't just say there was snow on X day during the Bulge. Also, some pictures can be misleading, particularly in towns or along roads where the snow melts quickly. I used to think that there wasn't snow on the ground in the early days of the Bulge (northern shoulder area) but I've recently read several quotes from participants that claim there was at least 6 inches at the start. Then apparently there was a thaw that lasted at least a couple of days which could easily make roads and urban areas look as though there's no snow.

 

[Ithikial_AU]

I must admit this topic has re-raised an idea I had a while ago but never pursued. It was to set up a shared online document that listed the weather day by day across the European theatre that anyone could chip into when they found a reliable source. Probably an excel workbook that had different tabs (where relevant) for:

- Western Normandy

- Eastern Normandy

- British Sector of Advance (inc Holland)

- American Sector of Advance across France and Germany.

For each location seperate coloums for night, morning and afternoon weather conditions.

Something like this would be a great source for any scenario designer when working out weather and ground conditions. Sometimes it's not always clear from source material.

[rocketman]

12 hours ago, Ithikial_AU said:

I must admit this topic has re-raised an idea I had a while ago but never pursued. It was to set up a shared online document that listed the weather day by day across the European theatre that anyone could chip into when they found a reliable source. Probably an excel workbook that had different tabs (where relevant) for:

- Western Normandy

- Eastern Normandy

- British Sector of Advance (inc Holland)

- American Sector of Advance across France and Germany.

For each location seperate coloums for night, morning and afternoon weather conditions.

Something like this would be a great source for any scenario designer when working out weather and ground conditions. Sometimes it's not always clear from source material.

That is a great idea, finding reliable weather information is hard. I have googled to try to find if there is some sort of calendar with historic weather info. No luck so far.

[Pak40]

Your best source of weather information will probably be from eyewitness accounts. AARs for certain units may include it too but they are sometimes detached from their front line units. Weather can change dramatically in a short distance. Case in point, It's currently raining where I work but looking at the radar, it's bone dry at my house 3 miles away.

[Ithikial_AU]

11 hours ago, Pak40 said:

Your best source of weather information will probably be from eyewitness accounts. AARs for certain units may include it too but they are sometimes detached from their front line units. Weather can change dramatically in a short distance. Case in point, It's currently raining where I work but looking at the radar, it's bone dry at my house 3 miles away.

Yeah I appreciate all that and it's been the constant thorn in my side for not pursuing it. Breaking down the theatre into smaller sectors and each day up into 6 hours blocks would help a great deal but wouldn't solve all little specific cases.

[Lille Fiskerby]

So you cant even say that from the 22nd it snowed in the southern area of the Ardennes but did'nt in the northern area, it can change in short distances.

If their is no weather account for a certain battle I guess the designer can use his privilege of being ... the designer

[Michael Emrys]

Split the difference and use light flurries.

Michael

[NPye]

Unit war diaries often state the weather conditions? May help, I use this when making battles for Normandy.