Guest John Maragoudakis Posted December 14, 1999 Share Posted December 14, 1999 Ok punk, make my day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted December 14, 1999 Share Posted December 14, 1999 Yes, I'm back... I've had my concerns as regards the ability of people to post abuse and get away with it previously responded to and am quite satisfied with the resulting answers. FWIW I could foresee that Schrodi would just keep being abusive unless the rules were strongly applied and I left until such time as I was assured they would be strongly applied. Upon my return it is amusing to see myself proved so right For the record I said I'd never again post here until Schrodi's ability to conduct his private hate campaign (and in the wider sense the ability of others to post abuse also ) was curtailed. I'd like to thank those who had the courage to come out and say, at various times, that such behaviour is unacceptable. ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dar Posted December 14, 1999 Share Posted December 14, 1999 <pointless anti-Schrodi diatribe voluntarily removed> Welcome back, Fionn. Dar [This message has been edited by Dar (edited 12-14-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schrodi Posted December 14, 1999 Share Posted December 14, 1999 Steve, this all started from Fionn responding to what you termed a “legitimate” question. Interestingly I’ve not had this problem with anyone else but I’ve noticed many others here and elsewhere have had similar problems with Fionn. Do I exaggerate? I’m more than willing to furnish you with examples, but I suspect you know that, and that’s why you didn’t ban me when Fionn, a valuable asset to you, more or less demanded you censor me because it bothers him. Despite the fact that I never used any profanity and even apologized for the one joke that could in any way be considered off colour. And Steve, as far as it being anti-democratic, you yourself invoke the democratic principles of your country: The US. But you refer to the 50 +1 needed to elect a president. Have they revoked the First Amendment? That was the democratic principle I was referring to: the right to free speech. Now, since private power often times means private tyranny you do have the right to ignore the spirit of your land. Given the context of this game I’m sure the irony wouldn’t be lost on you, reinforcing your urge not to ban me. I’m sure YOUR personal sentiments are against all forms of totalitarianism, as are mine. To wrap up the civil libertarian aspect to this I’ll also note the most of my posts (all of them almost, if you exclude the ones involving Fionn) are about the game, a game I’ve said I liked very much. I’ve NOT clogged up this system with a stream of invective as some would have you believe. There have only been a few directed at the source. I think the rest show my interest in civil interaction and a real interest in the game and in some tangential concerns of interest. Finally, either you believe in free speech or you don’t. Either you believe in it for your enemies or not at all. It’s precisely such cases that test the adherence of a society to such principles. We should not fail it personally or in the society at large. And Fionn, that’s total nonsense, and you know it. Steve has made is position clear all along, so you must know you are lying outright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trooper Posted December 14, 1999 Share Posted December 14, 1999 "The birthplace of modern democracy?" I've no idea where you're at (presumably the US by statistics), but a somewhat grandeuse claim, no? Whatever you do, don't let my mother hear you, she's Greek (Not that I consider the ancient Greek democracies particularly democratic!) and proud of it. To my sanity's detriment. We then go into the problems of is such a democracy (51% wins) really the best? I've always queried a two-party system myself, but you should have a look at the Proportional Representation system we have here. More people can vote for one person than any other, and he can still lose! I'm still not 100% sure how it works myself, but people seem happy with it! If, as claimed, PR is the better system, then perhaps that should be considered the 'Modern Democracy' and the system the US uses is merely mid-range? Just being devil's advocate! DWH Manic Moran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Beman Posted December 14, 1999 Share Posted December 14, 1999 I sure HOPE at least the full demo makes it out before Jan 1st, cause I'd like to play a little before the skies fall and the seas boil and the Beast visits the unclean with Hellfire and Damnation. (and I know which side of THAT line I am on; there won't be any computer games for me for the rest of eternity!) [beavis mode=ON] Yeah heh he umm heh Hellfire! HellFIRE! The streets will flow with the blood of the nonbelievers! That would be cool! [beavis mode=OFF] Apologies for posting way WAY off topic there. DjB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted December 14, 1999 Share Posted December 14, 1999 Schrodi, One question. You claim to never have used profanity, then how do you classify "pompous ass?" I personally don't have a problem with profanity, but the vast majority of American citizens at least, consider those word profane. Be careful before you brag too much about no profanity in your posts. Best policy is to refrain from any personal insults at all in a forum of this nature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killmore Posted December 14, 1999 Share Posted December 14, 1999 Democracy? Remember that Naziz won the elections and then basically outlawed democracy. So 51% can be very bad. Another interesting quote: Democracy is a tyranny of the minority. Some one mentioned GOLD demo? When? Where? Please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIX Posted December 14, 1999 Share Posted December 14, 1999 Long live Fionn!!!.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D Posted December 14, 1999 Share Posted December 14, 1999 Steve, To get this back on topic, what about the Gold demo? Any chance that it will be out soon? Like say before Christmas? That would be really cool since it would help tide us over until whenever the actual game is out. Thx, Mike D aka Mikester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Balaban Posted December 14, 1999 Share Posted December 14, 1999 If the demo does come out what will the scenarios be? Will we be able to PBEM? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dar Posted December 14, 1999 Share Posted December 14, 1999 I rather object to the idea of this place being as democratic as many people claim it to be. This is Battlefront's board, and they have every right to handle it as they see fit. It's nice that everyone has an opportunity to voice their opinion here, but I certainly do not agree that everyone has the right to say what they want--especially when it's maliciously intended to harm or misrepresent someone. I would much rather see anyone blatantly abusing other folks in here and displaying a complete lack of maturity be banned outright by Battlefront/BTS. No vote and no general consensus needed. Battlefront provided this forum and we're all guests--we do not have any inherent "rights" to post whatever we want with impunity. I think any more voting sets a bad precedent--it turns this board into a popularity contest instead of a forum where mature adults can post conflicting opinions yet still display some respect towards each other. Trooper: Your post got me to thinking about our beloved "democracies". Funny how both Greek and American "democracies" allowed slavery. As I recall, just as in America originally, Greek democracy only applied to free, male citizens. I, for one, hope we never become a true democracy. I can just see everybody in the US with an Internet-wired voting box hooked up to their TV voting on incredibly complex issues they don't know the first thing about. When they elect Jerry Springer president and Ricky Martin vice-president, I'm fleeing to Canada! Dar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOS was 71331 Posted December 14, 1999 Share Posted December 14, 1999 A lynch mob is the most perfect example of a democracy. -- H L Mencken Just thought I'd toss that out! ------------------ Airborne Combat Engineer Troop Leader (1966-1968) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest titan Posted December 14, 1999 Share Posted December 14, 1999 Schrodi SHOOT HIM!!!! I want blood!!!!! for no other reason than for the sake of it,nothing like a sacrifice at the alter ------------------ AUCK New Zealand Superpower waiting to happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TZEENCH Posted December 14, 1999 Share Posted December 14, 1999 Ahh...... just boot him its saves us the trouble of scrolling past his posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brent199 Posted December 14, 1999 Share Posted December 14, 1999 I just got off the phone with Chips&Bits, and when I tried to preorder Combat Mission, They told me it was canceled. Anyone know anything about that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted December 14, 1999 Share Posted December 14, 1999 Not to prolong this but... Schrodi, the ONLY reason you are still here is that you generally stick to on topic discussions. Yes, I am aware that Fionn has more than his share of flame wars, but he never attacked you, so any justification you have for your posts goes out the window right there. What happens in regards to Fionn is none of your concern unless it involves you directly. The big problem you seem to have is that do not appear able to read and undestand the agreement of this BBS. You seem to be hung up on some notion that you can post ANYTHING you like so long as you don't use words like "****head". For the type of abuse you have tossed at Fionn, this is irrlevant. Check this out: ---- I think Schrodi is a total waste to space. If brains were gun powder he wouldn't have enough to blow his nose! I wonder why he is even posting stuff on this BBS because his mommy shouldn't be letting him type things that grownups might see. Sorry if this hurts his iddybiddy wittle feelings, but boohoohoohoo, poor Schrodi. ---- Now, there was not one profanity in my statement, yet it violates EVERYTHING in the agreement. It is also a very close example of what you have posted, out of the blue, aimed at Fionn. The exact choice of your words is NOT the issue, rather the emotion and intention your posts are designed to create. This is what you fail to grasp. Abuse is abuse, the words are incidental. We are here to discuss Combat Mission ONLY, not to use this BBS as some sort of place to attack people you don't like. The world isn't perfect, and people will have disagreements and even heated words. But PURPOSEFULLY targeting someone for NO REASON OTHER THAN TO ABUSE THEM (note that profanity has NOTHING to do with this) then you are not only in violation of the BBS rules, but you are also a jerk. And that is something that we don't have to stand for. As for your bleeding heart liberal free speech arguments, I have only one thing to say -> we pay the bills, and if you don't like our rules, you can take a hike. I have been more than reasonable with you, nobody here likes you because of your behavior, and you have wasted many hours of my time dealing with your childish antics. And even if we were held to the laws of the US (which we are to some degree), we could *still* ban your ass because at least here in the US there are laws against the kind of abuse you have tossed at Fionn. Sorry to say, but this is the truth, so don't give me any of this free speech crap because not only do I not buy it, but I don't HAVE to buy it. So either post only about Combat Mission or leave. And if you don't do either, you will be banned. I can not make this any more clear than I already have. I do not feel like debating you on this issue any more Shcrodi since it appears to be a waste of my time. I now have a very clear record of your abuse, and your amazing lack of understanding about what abuse is. If I ban you nobody will shed a tear. Take my advice and don't post again about this issue, not to mention chucking abuse at anyone. Do you really want to be the FIRST person in one year, 19k posts, to be banned? The shame of it all is that yes Schrodi, you COULD be a valued contributer to this BBS. But you simply can't be that AND a childish flamer. Note the reaction of the others on this BBS. Has ANYBODY supported your vicious posts? I can also tell you that people have been emailing me asking to ban your ass (this has only happened once before). So take a good hard look at yourself. The irony is that you posted with the intention of abusing and discrediting Fionn, but in reality this didn't happen and instead you trashed yourself. So ask yourself something: is it worth pissing everybody off just so you can get off on posting some cheap shot crap about Fionn? Steve P.S. I will not be taking a vote about Schrodi's status, it was just an illustration that democracy would not work for him in this case. I am also not canning his butt right now because I *DO* value free speech. Schrodi posted a reasonable response, and therefore he stays for now. P.S.S. As much as I understand people flaming Shcordi, please don't sink to his level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted December 14, 1999 Share Posted December 14, 1999 Brent, Chips and Bits has never had the right to sell Combat Mission. Unfortunately, at one point they assumed that they would be able to carry it and advertised CM for preorder. We told them to remove mention of CM since it is only available through Battlefront.com. So it sounds like the person you spoke with is confused. CM certainly has not been "canceled" To answer the question that started this thread... there is NO PHYSICAL way we could have CM shipping before the end of the year even if we were totally done with both code and manual (which we are not). Production takes about 3 weeks to complete from the time we hand over final materials. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huron Posted December 14, 1999 Share Posted December 14, 1999 Just come to think of this text, "A Rape in Cyberspace". It's sort of a long read, but brings up many of the issues in this thread. Hrmm, not when the game will go gold, though... http://www.levity.com/julian/bungle.html Huron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Wilder Posted December 14, 1999 Share Posted December 14, 1999 Ah, the final authority. A clear answer. Thank you. Now on to better things! ------------------ Wild Bill Wild Bill's Raiders Director of Scenario Design, The Gamers Net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWIIRulz Posted December 14, 1999 Share Posted December 14, 1999 Hey Fionn, Just wondering if you are still playing CoC (Chain of Command) 1st Lt. TheGeneral 101st Airborne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brent199 Posted December 14, 1999 Share Posted December 14, 1999 Thanks for the info, I will order it off of this site right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schrodi Posted December 15, 1999 Share Posted December 15, 1999 Well Steve, if you look back at the tread that started this, I made a joke (with smilie) about Fionn not answering a question and why I supposed he didn’t. He is the one that changed the tone of the exchange with some absurd comments about a conspiracy theory and the X-files because I made a joke about his not answering the question very well. He then became the most nauseating supercilious snot, in my opinion, as I responded in kind. You sate “Yes, I am aware that Fionn has more than his share of flame wars, but he never attacked you, so any justification you have for your posts goes out the window right there.” a)I think therein lies the problem with the exchange I had, his attitude that has got him into trouble numerous times, as you know. the latter part of you sentence in inaccurate if you follow the original exchange. You then state “The big problem you seem to have is that do not appear able to read and understand the agreement of this BBS. You seem to be hung up on some notion that you can post ANYTHING you like so long as you don't use words like "****head".” This is inaccurate as your charter says you can’t post “abuse” AND “profanity”. I was being ironical as you only selectively enforce the charter it would seem, as others are profane on a regular basis and there doesn’t seem to be a key as to what parts of it you really mean. Also I reject the notion that I was responding with abuse except for the comment I retracted and given the selective implementation of the rules it’s a moot point anyway. Also regarding free speech, if I don’t think I’m being abusive and the one in the position of power does and refuses the right of the other to express their views on the basis THEIR interpretation that’s not really free speech is it? I’m sure the Soviets though their dissidents were abusing the system and really hurting the people. Now you have the ability to act unilarterly-yes. But you can’t talk about fee speech if exercising tyrannical decisions. You say “I *DO* value free speech.” But this is not true, as YOU interpret my intentions and are selectively enforcing the rules. Also re: “As for your bleeding heart liberal free speech arguments, I have only one thing to say -> we pay the bills, and if you don't like our rules, you can take a hike.” and “Schrodi, the ONLY reason you are still here is that you generally stick to on topic discussions.” and I thought the UK lifted the irony embargo when PBS started getting British comedy! P.S. I love the game , I have and will continue to post about it if allowed. I would also like to add my great Uncle was imprisoned and killed for speaking out against Hitler in late 1940, at that point Hitler was actually very popular and about 99% of the community was against him. Like I said: either you believe in free speech or you don’t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS_PanzerLeader Posted December 15, 1999 Share Posted December 15, 1999 Man you just dont know when to quit do you? SS_PanzerLeader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted December 15, 1999 Share Posted December 15, 1999 Brent199, Damn, someone had better tell Charles and Steve this... They'd better stop working on CM if it's been cancelled . Seriously, I think that this is just Chips and Bits realising that they won't be selling CM since Battlefront.com is selling CM directly from its own website (this site). Since Chips and Bits isn't going to say "Oh we actually advertised that we'd sell this game despite repeated statements from the developers that this would not be allowed" (which if I understand US law correctly could be some form of false advertising) they say it's been cancelled. As for the gold demo.. I think the only person who will know about the gold demo scenarios is Steve, at least until the demo is posted for download and play for testers just to make sure everything works prior to letting you all know it has been released and giving you the URL. Ps. Steve is the scenario designer of the Alpha AAR battle AND the demo scenarios in the beta demo. ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts