markshot Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 (edited) I started with Big Time Software now Battlefront in 2000. I've played CMBO/CMBB/CMAK. I just got a new PC. So, I got the CMBN full bundle. I've read the manual; especially the C2 and arty/air sections a few time. I've played the 6 tutorial missions. But I must admit, I don't fully grasp C2. In the old games: Any HQ could spot for on map mortars. Only an FO could call in off map indirect fire. Any HQ could give command+bonuses to support units: ATGs, shartshooters, LMG, HMG, mortars, ... Any CO/BN HQ could command squads. --- Well, I am not in Kansas anymore. I don't really get the new system. I am trying to play at VETERAN and WARRIOR difficulty. At the moment, I am off to make a map and put some units on and run some experiments. Perhaps, the CM lab approach will help. Any explanations or links to good threads would be appreciated! Thanks. Edited September 7, 2015 by markshot 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Combatintman Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 This one for starters: http://community.battlefront.com/topic/119474-c2-information-sharing/ I'm sure more folks will be a long shortly to give you pointers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markshot Posted September 7, 2015 Author Share Posted September 7, 2015 Oh that one looks really interesting! Thanks! Yes, "spotting" for contacts is really good. I remember, in the old games 200M was the magic number for infantry engagements. The sneaky thing to do was have a couple of HMGs back from your main line which would stop or delay the enemy from getting into ID range. Also, I have noticed that they fixed a feature of the old game. If you killed an ATG, even if you did not see it die, you would see an unknown team pop out (knowing it was killed). Now, it seems to remain as a possible contact even when killed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 I think you might be overthinking the arty call stuff, from what you're saying; it's deceptively simple (from one direction at least). Pretty much every HQ, plus several other types of team, has support call privileges. They can call from off-map assets and on-map assets that are available (set up, have their own comms established; if either of these conditions is not met, the tile in the support menu will have a message related to that unavailability). Some off-map assets (heavy artillery, possibly some air, depends on the force and period) require that the calling unit be a Forward Observer. If an element starts the game with support call privileges, it will retain the ability to call missions unless the individual in whom those privileges are invested is made a casualty. On map assets require a chain of communications to be established, which generally requires a radio and once they're set up and on-net, any HQ anywhere on the map can use them. As to actual command functions, only HQs in an element's chain of command can provide C3 for that element. A superior HQ can stand in for an absent or deceased lower echelon leader in their CoC if they are within Voice or Sight distance (not Radio or Distant Sight). So company HQs are useful for keeping heavy weapons that have been separated from the support platoon (for example) in C3. The "difficulty" level doesn't actually change how things work very much, more what information you get, mostly affecting the information you get on the enemy. Running your own tests is often very informative in CMx2. It's always worth bearing in mind that the game is often more detailed than you might at first think. For example, just rushing troops about for minutes at a time won't tell you very much about how much faster "Fast" is than "Quick" because laden troops can't maintain a flat-out sprint across natural terrain for an entire minute, so the apparent difference in speed is only small if you consider a full minute, but if you consider 5-20 seconds it's very significant. There aren't really any "magic" distances in CMx2. The closer, the better, the more eyes, time, binos, the better. The higher the experience level of the element, and the lower its suppression status. Ambient lighting also has its effects, along with concealment which is much more varied. What you see when something is killed varies according to your difficulty level, but even on the most opaque level, if an ATG crew abandons its gun, you'll see an ATG-icon team rushing about much more quickly than they could if pushing their gun (if you see them at all), and the silhouette on that team's info panel will tell you the status of the gun, even if you can't actually get eyes on its location. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markshot Posted September 7, 2015 Author Share Posted September 7, 2015 I am finding lots of interesting things with various units and the scenario editor. Examples: 50M is the magic distance for voice comms without LOS. Visual close is good enough to spot. Visual far is not. Voice comms can be used to request from a non-organic mortar unit, but the unit will not show a command link or a voice icon. The radio command net is not multi-point (aka peer to peer). The net is a hiearchical structure where peer communications require a superior node. I wonder if C2 with platoons in 50M (voice) or LOS of each other still require the CO HQ in order to exchange information? I am learning a lot by doing this. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOS:96B2P Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 <Snip> I wonder if C2 with platoons in 50M (voice) or LOS of each other still require the CO HQ in order to exchange information? <Snip> There are two kinds of information sharing: vertical and horizontal. Horizontal sharing (A team of 1st squad relays a spotting contact to C team of second squad) does not require the teams to be in C2. For this info to be passed up to the Company HQ Vertically the C2 net will need to be working. Or the info can be delivered horizontally to the Company HQ via a runner. Spotting Information can also be exchanged between fire teams of different battalions and then passed up the respective battalions C2 chain. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weapon2010 Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 I do understand these great examples of c2, and the engines simulation of it is impressive, but in reality relative to gameplay, what does it matter?The scout's initial contact is "known by all" since I am "all".The "god factor". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 It matters because your units with '?' icons will spot the enemy faster than those that do not have any idea where the enemy is. Just like in real live if someone already told him there is someone near that barn you will notice then quicker as you move to a position where you can see the farm. Given that he who spots first gets a big advantage it can tip the odd in your favour. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markshot Posted September 7, 2015 Author Share Posted September 7, 2015 It matters because your units with '?' icons will spot the enemy faster than those that do not have any idea where the enemy is. Just like in real live if someone already told him there is someone near that barn you will notice then quicker as you move to a position where you can see the farm. Given that he who spots first gets a big advantage it can tip the odd in your favour. Thank you for a very succinct explanation as to why this matters. It would seem for small arms fire fights this matters greatly. But for other things as Weapon2010 said ... playing WEGO, one tank may have IDed an ATG, but I as the commander will area fire with quite a few turrets upon that piece ground, since I know what cannot be seen can still be killed. So, both perspectives would seem to have some validity. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletpoint Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 I think that it's mostly an issue for tanks, where shooting first is very important. For infantry, if they don't have a contact marker, they will spot the enemy anyway almost as soon as they start shooting. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weapon2010 Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 unless you play the agreed upon rule" gentleman's area fire rule", which the unit in question can not be given orders to area fire(even though it could) unless it is in c2 with its hq, and the unit that does have a los to the enemy unit is in c2 with its hq, and both are in c2 with their higher hq, if it exists, when those conditions are met, area fire is allowed 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markshot Posted September 7, 2015 Author Share Posted September 7, 2015 Well, I have just finished the 6 tutorial missions, but played CMBO/CMBB/CMAK for years. So, I don't have any house rules yet for play. I am probably going to be playing on Warrior. I don't know if my memory is still good enough to keep track of every contact as just a generic marker. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weapon2010 Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 nobody plays by this rule anyway, but it would be nice 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOS:96B2P Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 I think that it's mostly an issue for tanks, where shooting first is very important. <Snip> This is probably where spotting or the lack of it is most obvious. There are entire threads (many of them rather emotional) dedicated to tanks spotting / shooting first or why didn't my tank shoot first etc. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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