John Kettler Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 My finally achieved actual battle first battle with BadgerDog was, from my perspective, a very poor start on our Forever War! Am talking Grade One military debacle Informal notes from USMLTUGF (US Military Liaison Team to Ukraine Ground Forces) "Though we had no people anywhere in the immediate vicinity, we have learned that, for once, RT got the story right. The UGF, in what the Kiev government foolishly insists on calling the ATO to this day (guys, it's a war) showed convincingly why we need to make sure every UGF TG has one of our teams attached to it. Bluntly put, it was a disaster from the get and wound up essentially handing the Russian forces (still claiming to be pro-Russian separatists) nearly a TG consisting of aged BTR-70 intact, a TG including a Bulat tank, ARTY observation vehicles, an AFV with BSR, and the newest IFV--with the highly capable new Bar ATGM installed! Not good." "While our computerized terrain analysis capability and vast ISR support would certainly have helped, by any standards, even WW II, the UGF CO had a very poor understanding of the real nature of the ground (out of date maps, outdated recon info, no UAVs to help), then compounded those woes by bringing a peashooter to a rifle engagement--in the near darkness of dawn and driving rain! As you know, despite strong efforts and a lot of American ingenuity, there are still considerable UGF units with no thermals at all. In brutal terms, with some exceptions in upgraded tanks and new IFVs, the Ukrainians not only don't own the night, but they embarrass themselves and us when they try to. So it was here. They were shot to pieces and were unable to get a fix on where the shots were coming from. Equally, it's clear that either the UGF needs to relegate BTR-70s to rear security or rearm them with modular turrets possessing thermals, a 30 mm cannon and a Bar. As it is, they make excellent targets and fully live up to the old Russian characterization of "coffins on wheels." "We were shocked to discover the Ukrainians attacked with no FS Plan or fires, of any sort, whatsoever. Not a Grad bombardment to disrupt the defenders and kill or wound personnel. Not a single TRP! What were these guys thinking?" "In fairness to the totally outgunned UGF TG CO, the start line, dictated by still incompetent higher, was in enemy LOS/LF--with altogether predictable results. Half the recon screen died while on its first bound, and a tank firing from its hilltop position blew up another BRDM-2 before it could so much as move. We think a BTR-82 got two that actually managed to almost complete their first bound. Several vehicles exploded while on the start line, and some which somehow were masked from crossfires initially, wound up unwittingly reversing into them while attempting to honor the terms of a proposed cease fire. We know there was such an effort because we, and doubtless many others, intercepted the broadcast, which was in clear. Unfortunately, it was so garbled (will the Ukrainians ever get their radios sorted out?) the Russian CO may not have understood it. Or chose not to. We simply don't know. END Notes RT Gloats (with excellent reason)https://www.dropbox.com/s/szlna0d4v46elx0/Screenshot%202015-07-16%2023.45.30.png?dl=0 The Butcher's Billhttps://www.dropbox.com/s/487qdbv5up712w5/Screenshot%202015-07-16%2023.30.20.png?dl=0 Death on the Start Line https://www.dropbox.com/s/1wrnyb6r3hrgof9/Screenshot%202015-07-16%2023.23.52.png?dl=0 Agony prolonged https://www.dropbox.com/s/uiovpzxf702r3dk/Screenshot%202015-07-16%2023.23.58.png?dl=0 Natural Born Killer! OR Location, Location, Location!https://www.dropbox.com/s/4bhmungdqmukzrk/Screenshot%202015-07-16%2023.31.31.png?dl=0 No Slouch, Eitherhttps://www.dropbox.com/s/pozkhuh08c5ovgt/Screenshot%202015-07-16%2023.34.24.png?dl=0 Intercepted single frame from RUS UAV looking toward UKR lines (UKR Tunguska shooting toward RUS lines)https://www.dropbox.com/s/9v92kr6qj11ya1w/Screenshot%202015-07-16%2023.32.49.png?dl=0 If things are really this bad for the UGF, I feel for the UGF troops trying to defend their country with ancient weapons! Attacking in heavy rain and near darkness was supposed to degrade BD's thermals. Not exactly what happened, was it? Instead, we have yet more proof that war should be left to the professionals. And while I clearly am on the wrong side of a near vertical and bloody learning curve, not only is there cause for hope, but for joy! Joy? Why joy? Though it took weeks to get operational, I have now completed my first ever CMx2 PBEM and am successfully using CM Helper to take the misery out of PBEM! BD and I are about to have at each other again. This time some will die amid the beauty of the sunlit steppe. Perhaps in some variety of internecine warfare. What's that? I must away, for SLIM calls me forth to drink Heineken and eat Edam at a place called Bridge Number Seven! Regards, John Kettler 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agusto Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Attacking in heavy rain and near darkness was supposed to degrade BD's thermals. Not exactly what happened, was it? It degraded your NVGs even more it seems. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOS:96B2P Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Though it took weeks to get operational, I have now completed my first ever CMx2 PBEM and am successfully using CM Helper to take the misery out of PBEM! John, Good job. Before you know it you will be doing AARs and U-Tube videos of your battles. Look forward to hearing about your battle with SLIM at Bridge #7. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sublime Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 less posts more turns btw im shocked you turned your airman rescue around so completely. it wemt from looking like slaughter for you to a slaughter for me.. sigh. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOS:96B2P Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 less posts more turns btw im shocked you turned your airman rescue around so completely. it wemt from looking like slaughter for you to a slaughter for me.. sigh. Well ...... it's not over with yet and I still have to get them out of there. But my luck did improve when I went from concentrating on the rescue to concentrating on fighting the infantry battle. John, I apologize for hijacking your topic. Now about this bridge #7 any news from the TOC? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted July 19, 2015 Author Share Posted July 19, 2015 MOS:96B2P, NBD, though the exchange confused me initially. As for Bridge Number Seven, the game is well begun, but my chances for bouncing the bridge have improved dramatically with the temporary departure of Hauptmann (?) SLIM until Monday! Theoretically, a least, since, absent his PW and access to his computer, I have no means of stealing a march on him while he's away! BadgerDog is about to come forth in some unknown manner, with the affray to be mounted on a much larger map which appears to offer scope for real maneuver, as opposed to the highly constrained QB map last battled upon. Do you think I should start a separate post for Bridge Number Seven, or perhaps simply keep going on John Kettler vs CMBN? Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted July 19, 2015 Author Share Posted July 19, 2015 Since I'm Red, therefore Defender, in what is technically an ME, it logically follows that I'm conducting a counterattack, right? Despite some rather embarrassing command glitches (forgetting to order one element to move and being so engrossed in the tactical display other things got forgotten), generally events are unfolding in fine and exciting form. Contact was gained during a movement bound and fire opened upon enemy armor assessed as moving toward Village (Major VP location on BD's side of the map). Details are in the hands of MoD censors and have, amazingly, been promised for release shortly. Have to say it's really cool to watch modern Russian MBTs rolling smartly across the steppe and firing on the move. Pretty thrilling! Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted July 19, 2015 Author Share Posted July 19, 2015 The MoD has just announced its forces, which were conducting a "quickly assembled counterattack against revanchist elements," engaged and destroyed what is believed to be an enemy tank. The Ministry's spokesperson went on state "Combat has how become general and fierce, with the situation being described by the Komandir on the scene as extremely confused and fluid. We expect more details soon." The spokesperson went on to say: "The Defense Minister views the battle unfolding as "the vindication of wise expenditures made to upgrade and expand battle technology of the Ground Forces." I'll say! The battlefield is so crazy I've got armor headed one way and shooting in any direction other than the axis of movement. Additionally, there's firing going on at I haven't the faintest idea what, still less why. Whatever it is, it's got my guys really worked up. We are only two minutes into combat, and already things are so chaotic it's quite difficult to tell what's happening, why and who's doing it. On a personal note, playing Tiny QB forces on a Large map makes CMBS, for Armor on Armor engagements at least, a whole new game by restoring real maneuver to the battle. I've been up all night, am exhausted and have blurry vision, yet I'm quite excited by how dynamic and visually rich the gaming experience has become. Hats off to BadgerDog for the capital suggestion of moving from a Medium to a Large map. Regards, John Kettler 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOS:96B2P Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Do you think I should start a separate post for Bridge Number Seven, or perhaps simply keep going on John Kettler vs CMBN? If you are wanting to do a narrative / AAR of two separate PBEM games it would probably be less confusing if the two games had their own separate topic threads. I look forward to following the action however you decide to post it. I'm guessing SLIM will have a U-Tube video of the most action filled parts of the battle....... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted July 20, 2015 Author Share Posted July 20, 2015 (edited) What a strange turn! A combination of a lull and various other events: more wholly unexplained shooting from my side, coupled with some secondaries from kills I inflicted on BD's armor. Estimate his losses at 2 x MBT, 1 X BMP-3 series IFV and ? What this leaves him with is anyone's guess. The first one was the estimated MBT on his end of the board near the Village, but nothing could match the cataclysmic explosion of what I believe to be some sort of BMP-3 which practically drove into the front of the Lake Resort (Major VP on my end of the map) before coming to a sudden and dramatic end. It was as pointed a reminder as it's possible to receive of why hanging out near burning armor is a really bad idea. On the face of things, I seem to be doing well. Yet I know to a certainty that can go pear shaped in an instant. Judging from the fact my guys are firing, with deadly effect, on targets not fully IDed, I believe I'm seeing Constellation at work. The logic seems to run: "Here's where we all are. Some sort of enemy AFVs are moving over there, well away from our positions. Kill them!" Have to say I can't argue with the results! More contacts have been obtained, but whether they're going to prove actionable is very much an open question. Regards, John Kettler Edited July 20, 2015 by John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted July 20, 2015 Author Share Posted July 20, 2015 Considering the stupendous secondary from the BMP-3 should've resulted in a huge crater, practically nothing at all left of the AFV and pieces raining down in the surrounding oblasts, I find it amazing there was another one this turn, as well as at the sites of the other two kills, neither of which did anything on that scale. Other than the three explosions, it was dead quiet in terms of combat. I have some screenshots from earlier turns, but since I don't know what BD knows about what I've got and where, I'm wary about releasing quite a few of them. They might tell him something he doesn't know. Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted July 21, 2015 Author Share Posted July 21, 2015 I think it's now officially picnic season on the steppe, but as the old saying from the westerns goes: "It's quiet. Too quiet." Needless to say, I don't expect the calm to last much longer, if at all. Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 I am happy to hear you are playing some H2H John. How about posting some screenshots? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted July 21, 2015 Author Share Posted July 21, 2015 (edited) Bil, You have no idea how thrilled I am to be playing CMx2 after months of simply being unable to marshal the correct neural circuits! And to have two games going at once is sweet indeed. As for pics... MoD censors have authorized release of these. Some are from a transiting UAV while others are not regulation at all, but have been allowed to be posted because they make the Red Army look good. Death roars forth from this leafy bower https://www.dropbox.com/s/l23s6kx0iuizlde/Screenshot%202015-07-19%2011.40.56.png?dl=0 Same tank but different angle. Split muzzle blast is the remarkable result of a tree trunk in the way of the blast but not the projectile. Now we need a scorched trunk mod!https://www.dropbox.com/s/jmnxcxwvnmn5amw/Screenshot%202015-07-19%2009.47.50.png?dl=0 A fine study of one of mine in action. Love the atmosphere of the shot! Speaking of shots, without the ability to go frame by frame, I find it tough to capture them. https://www.dropbox.com/s/m1my62xm888btol/Screenshot%202015-07-19%2009.46.49.png?dl=0 And another tank is no more. Pic shows MBT formerly defending the Major VP. https://www.dropbox.com/s/rmjg47ijorud7eo/Screenshot%202015-07-19%2011.08.45.png?dl=0 Skylined BMP-3M about to die! https://www.dropbox.com/s/7sys6jvpn7v7kj4/Screenshot%202015-07-19%2011.34.07.png?dl=0 K-Kill https://www.dropbox.com/s/gu2q4equwmntepy/Screenshot%202015-07-19%2011.14.07.png?dl=0 Massive secondary of same BMP-3Mhttps://www.dropbox.com/s/ms1po9kgvuf6xsb/Screenshot%202015-07-20%2023.20.50.png?dl=0 I have a good high oblique of the battlefield, but I can't post it because I had icons on and it shows altogether too much Red and Blue info for my taste. Shall see what I can do next turn. Regards, John Kettler Edited July 21, 2015 by John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted July 22, 2015 Author Share Posted July 22, 2015 (edited) As expected, the lull didn't last, causing the picnics to end badly. This turn had all the high drama and nail biting tension which we know and love of CMx2 in general and CMBS in particular. I sent a BMP-3 to explore the far side of the map and see what BD had over there. A quick dash on the reverse slope, followed by a right wheel maneuver to pull up into a patch of trees. He may be forgiven for coming out the front side of the patch a bit because of what he abruptly beheld down the draw and under the trees. "Tank!" Head on, no less. https://www.dropbox.com/s/melkjwg6d9zivq9/Screenshot%202015-07-22%2006.36.55.png?dl=0 Amazingly, I got the drop on him and fired first! I tried to screen capture the main gun firing, but it was too quick for me. I did manage to capture these. https://www.dropbox.com/s/inwv8ejc6iv11vt/Screenshot%202015-07-22%2006.41.44.png?dl=0 My woodpecker went to work, lighting up the object of my ATGM affection.https://www.dropbox.com/s/1wcqvuw225l7ugo/Screenshot%202015-07-22%2006.45.52.png?dl=0 The split second before everything changes: several bursts of 30 mm cannon fire coming in, a 125 mm HE/FRAG going out! https://www.dropbox.com/s/d67dsv0bbjxgtyv/Screenshot%202015-07-22%2007.02.36.png?dl=0 Which manifested as https://www.dropbox.com/s/d2i8yka7bbssmc5/Screenshot%202015-07-22%2007.11.24.png?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/9znryce6yq8rlhr/Screenshot%202015-07-22%2007.09.24.png?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/4kemww4fw82ax6u/Screenshot%202015-07-22%2007.14.40.png?dl=0 Why KBM owes me a refund! Remember my ATGM from earlier? Though I was unable to record the actual strike on the tank, a few replays convinced me the laws of physics changed as a result. Would you believe it hit the turret, ricocheted (as opposed to turning into aluminum confetti) and went way downrange before exploding in an impressive manner on impact? You can see the explosion just above the intended victim's smoke grenade dischargers. The question may reasonably raised as to how this is possible on a missile which has lost all guidance commands and should therefore have gone out of control and crashed, certainly as soon as the firing platform came under annihilating counterfire. https://www.dropbox.com/s/73qo2pkpidvzieh/Screenshot%202015-07-22%2006.57.30.png?dl=0 In other news, I was dismayed to discover my BMP-3 crew consisted solely of a gunner and a driver. Is this normal? Shouldn't I have a TC? Regards, John Kettler Edited July 22, 2015 by John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted July 22, 2015 Author Share Posted July 22, 2015 The fatal run-in the Tank in the Gully™ commanded my immediate attention, so I decided to cross the road and drive near the lakeshore. Along the way, I ran into someone. Okay, three someones. They were in this, which I found lurking in the tree line to my dead front.https://www.dropbox.com/s/bmfzf1b6oac8zeb/Screenshot%202015-07-22%2009.45.08.png?dl=0 Don't know whether it was luck, better crew, sensors or what, but my guys wasted no time after encountering the foe at spitting range. https://www.dropbox.com/s/3ub6o62kxuzu0qq/Screenshot%202015-07-22%2009.49.55.png?dl=0https://www.dropbox.com/s/rfahdyh643ibqsb/Screenshot%202015-07-22%2009.52.22.png?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/m46t32f3qsvz7tt/Screenshot%202015-07-22%2009.48.33.png?dl=0 Though I don't show them, BD's tank did pop smoke, but at near zero range, his tank had exploded before the grenades ever went off. And would you believe it, BD's already responded to the turn for which I just issued orders! Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOS:96B2P Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 In other news, I was dismayed to discover my BMP-3 crew consisted solely of a gunner and a driver. Is this normal? Shouldn't I have a TC? I think for BMPs it helps with their spotting ability if you have at least three troops inside. The two crew plus at least one passenger. This passenger will occupy the TC seat. For this reason I will sometimes split a two man scout team off from the squad and send the scout team back into the BMP. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted July 23, 2015 Author Share Posted July 23, 2015 (edited) MOS:96B2P, That sounds insane on the face of it. Having a TC who is also functioning as the gunner is one thing, but expecting some random soldier passenger to be able to fight any AFV, never mind something as complex and sophisticated as a BMP-3, strikes me as ludicrous in the extreme. In other news, things got very exciting in the woods to my left when one of my AFVs came under fire, popped smoke and reversed. Not sure what happened, but it was quite intense. Regards, John Kettler Edited July 23, 2015 by John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Jack Ripper Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 I'm guessing SLIM will have a U-Tube video of the most action filled parts of the battle....... When the bullets finally start flying, I'll start recording. I'm writing an AAR, taking screenshots, and I'll put together an action video. Instead of making my own thread, I'll post in John's once everything is all over. Until then, I'll sit tight. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted July 23, 2015 Author Share Posted July 23, 2015 (edited) Other than a certain amount of toing and froing at the scene of my last tank kill, things were pretty quiet. I did some repositioning of my tanks in an effort to see better, a real problem I'm finding given the way the ground and foliage are, and moved one toward the Village in a kind of left hook. I also conducted a bit of recon by fire into the central part of the Village to see what moved. There was movement all right, but not at all as planned! View of tank in position in stand of trees near Minor VP road junction https://www.dropbox.com/s/xdo9l11jn89lozk/Screenshot%202015-07-23%2009.39.24.png?dl=0 Tank executing left hook https://www.dropbox.com/s/rx92kfnj97hwwz8/Screenshot%202015-07-23%2009.41.32.png?dl=0 BD Cam™ view of what happened nexthttps://www.dropbox.com/s/tv2qtht49vzeufq/Screenshot%202015-07-23%2009.43.41.png?dl=0 Digital reconstruction of event as seen perpendicular to axis of engagementhttps://www.dropbox.com/s/kgsmigwez5rbyde/Screenshot%202015-07-23%2009.42.36.png?dl=0 I believe in the first case he eased a tank out of turret defilade and fired. In the latter, I self-evidently ran into a Cover Armor Arc set in place by a tank which must have slipped into the Village and moved into position at Slow. All in all, a truly awful turn for me, but a warning for any of you planning on fighting BD! Regards, John Kettler Edited July 23, 2015 by John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted July 23, 2015 Author Share Posted July 23, 2015 I made a bit of a dash forward with my tank in the trees and found... https://www.dropbox.com/s/htnbuerxi7japwd/Screenshot%202015-07-23%2010.40.13.png?dl=0 Though his tank was now unfightable, BD's surviving tanker leapt over the engaged side https://www.dropbox.com/s/8g1ll4hvlpf7glg/Screenshot%202015-07-23%2010.46.00.png?dl=0 plopped down into prone, weapon in hand, during which he came under MG fire from my turret roof mount, https://www.dropbox.com/s/zqc36n9bplfjtxb/Screenshot%202015-07-23%2010.46.41.png?dl=0 fire which didn't hit him, but the issue was instantly rendered moothttps://www.dropbox.com/s/htnbuerxi7japwd/Screenshot%202015-07-23%2010.40.13.png?dl=0 In the previous turn, BD caught up with me, matching me kill for kill by type, but that may not mean much of anything, because there are indicators he may have a lot of toys. Therefore, potentially a lot of options. It all depends on his exact force composition. And mine. Nobody's talking. Regards, John Kettler 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOS:96B2P Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 When the bullets finally start flying, I'll start recording. I'm writing an AAR, taking screenshots, and I'll put together an action video. Instead of making my own thread, I'll post in John's once everything is all over. Until then, I'll sit tight. Very good. I always enjoy your videos. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted July 23, 2015 Author Share Posted July 23, 2015 Another hair-raising turn! I have no idea who got the ? spot or how initially, but somehow it became a viable target. Briefly. Alll the shooter saw to begin with was some dust (cause unknown) and cranked off an Ainets round. https://www.dropbox.com/s/1bbny6fp89y4d0l/Screenshot%202015-07-23%2012.16.11.png?dl=0 Now, why did that happen? Initially, I didn't know. In fact, it took careful watching several times to learn what all the excitement was about. Would you believe...? https://www.dropbox.com/s/t9n9grmn61fhdx6/Screenshot%202015-07-23%2012.16.24.png?dl=0 Highly motivated by their discovery, a small correction was made forthwith and the tank let fly again. https://www.dropbox.com/s/mrgrqb7tp4amz6h/Screenshot%202015-07-23%2012.24.50.png?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/feqivlmqlg08iqx/Screenshot%202015-07-23%2012.19.37.png?dl=0 What I found and dealt with under the trees neatly illustrates my point about enemy force composition uncertainty. I'm fairly certain TDs like the one I dispatched are cheaper than missile firing gun tanks, which means he could have several more lurking about. Not a cheery thought to contemplate. This is a battle of micro tactics, where even a tiny move can spell disaster. Am running out of fingernails, people. This stuff is intense! Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Good job John, hopefully someday you are going to start actually embedding the images in your post. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted July 23, 2015 Author Share Posted July 23, 2015 (edited) Bil, Wish it were as easy to do for the Forums as it is for, say, WordPress sites. There, you can either directly attach the image from a folder on your rig or simply paste in the URL. No separate hosting to deal with at all. While I take your point, on balance I think I'm doing phenomenally well to fight a QB and a Battle simultaneously, while documenting both on the fly. Meanwhile... Hark! It doth approach! https://www.dropbox.com/s/h3wvaxuezso4ghq/Screenshot%202015-07-23%2014.04.37.png?dl=0 But not much closer. Ever! Believe this is the one which nailed my left hook tank; if so, there is a heavy price for unwarranted exuberance! https://www.dropbox.com/s/iy2hxahor400jql/Screenshot%202015-07-23%2014.03.40.png?dl=0 And this beastie crawled up over the ridge with murder intent yet met Death instead of meting it out. Diagnosis? Fatal through and through 125 mm GSW! https://www.dropbox.com/s/grez6lxt2iue3by/Screenshot%202015-07-23%2014.07.42.png?dl=0 The sorrow and the pity! Nearest column is so dark because there are two dead tanks, one formerly mine, in close proximity. https://www.dropbox.com/s/2ekuw7qo87immik/Screenshot%202015-07-23%2014.17.02.png?dl=0 as seen here, together with the recently perforated BMP-2 https://www.dropbox.com/s/b4y9qunphw5jntn/Screenshot%202015-07-23%2014.15.02.png?dl=0 All in all, a pretty ugly turn for BD, even if it wasn't two tanks. Regards, John Kettler Edited July 23, 2015 by John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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