rogue189 Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Ok. I had this problem with Shock Force and now I am having it with Black Sea. How do you successfully attack a known enemy position with infantry? It seems like the game is set up for a "defender fires first" rule. These are what I have encountered: 1. Second mission of the US campaign. Far right of map there is a CP with 2 scouts in it. I discovered them when they shot at a couple of guys I had moving through the trees on the left, then they left the house and moved to the woods behind the house. I had some infantry move up on the right plus reinforced on the left. I gave my guys on the right a hunt command to move toward the furthest house closest to the edge of the map. I knew this would expose them, but since the enemy had engaged on the left, I figured a hunt move on the right would work. Wrong! Next thing I know, my guys are getting shot, they can't see what is shooting them even though, I know what is there! Plus, giving them the hunt command should have them on the highest state of alert. Two casualties later the guys on the left open up and suppress the enemy. I decide to move a couple of guys into the house closest to the enemy (directly in front of them) and wanted to use the guys on the left to target the wooded position with light fire. But guess what? No LOS. Since my guys were prone, they couldn't fire unless they sat up or the enemy sat up. So, I had to assault the best I could without suppression and continuing to take casualties from two guys! 2. Attacking building. Unless I can suppress an enemy inside a room then assault it, I can never go in a house without losing some or all of my men. My main tactic is to close quickly with the quick command then hunt my way in. 9 times out of 10 my losses are not from the room I am going into, but an adjacent room that has bad guys that I didn't know about. Once again, even with the hunt command, the enemy shoots first. 3. Sneaking up on vehicles. I notice this even with the vehicles and I have seen it in the videos. You see a known enemy unit then decide to use a vehicle to engage it. Try to come from the side or rear for a great shot? Nope! The enemy just spins around and engages you. But the computer doesn't seem to have a problem blowing up my tanks without me even seeing them! I'm sure this is more me than the code, but I don't get it! What am I doing wrong! I remember the training videos put online using the find, fix, flank rule but when I try to flank, I always take losses. I expect to take losses finding the enemy, but if my guys wont shoot because they are prone, how exactly am I supposed to fix someone? What good is the hunt command when it still results in my guys getting killed because they couldn't see what was shooting at them? Do I need to use covered arcs? Run up vehicles? Help! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 (edited) I remember the training videos put online using the find, fix, flank rule but when I try to flank, I always take losses. I expect to take losses finding the enemy, but if my guys wont shoot because they are prone, how exactly am I supposed to fix someone?By using units other than the ones who are prone. Units advancing to contact should be overwatched by friendly units who have LOS to likely enemy positions, or who can at least move into overwatch very quickly. This is a known enemy position so you shouldn't be relying on your advance scouts to also provide the base of fire. Finding, fixing and flanking are jobs to be assigned to different units.Also, recon by fire if you already have a good idea of where the enemy is. No LOS? Us area fire very near the objective delivered by direct fire or indirect fire assets. Edited February 9, 2015 by Vanir Ausf B 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 3. Sneaking up on vehicles. I notice this even with the vehicles and I have seen it in the videos. You see a known enemy unit then decide to use a vehicle to engage it. Try to come from the side or rear for a great shot? Nope! The enemy just spins around and engages you. But the computer doesn't seem to have a problem blowing up my tanks without me even seeing them!Forgot this one.There is a certain element of luck involved and you have probably had some bad dice rolls, so to speak. But there are a few things you can do to stack the odds in your favor. One is to do a careful terrain analysis to determine the exact point at which your unit will move into LOS of the enemy and stop there. The more time you spend moving while in LOS of the enemy the greater the odds pile up against you. The other thing you can do is gang up on the enemy tank by moving more than one of your units into LOS simultaneously. He may get the jump on one of your tanks but he won't get both of them so the worst case scenario is that you trade even. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spitzenhund Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 I'm finding attacking known positions is not possible really. It's best to just blow it all up, and if that can't be done then its best to just sit from a distance and attrition out the enemies in the houses (attrition them as in put all your ammo into a room they are in, wait for another contact then shoot at that room, eventually they will be most part gone and the mission will be won). If i dare get into CQB it always leads to at least one person dieing if not 6. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wee Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 (edited) ...But the computer doesn't seem to have a problem blowing up my tanks without me even seeing them! Help! If situation allows, try to use supporting infantry to eyeball the flanks of your armored units. Everybody supports and overwatches everybody. Infantry overwatches APCs, APCs overwatches infantry, Infantry and APCs overwatch MBTs, which give firesupport and overwatch for my APCs and Infantry... List could go on forever in similar manner. Also, I've always found practical to apply rules & thinking of the "rock-scissors-paper" game to various tactical games. Which unit in your pool used with right doctrine is the most effective countermeasure against enemy in current situation? Edited February 9, 2015 by wee 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LUCASWILLEN05 Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Classic Fire and Movement tactics. Let's say you have a Bradley platoon. One option might be to employ the three Badleys and an infantry squad as your base of fire while two squads attack the position on Assault orders. That enables your two assault squads to employ squad level Fire and Movement. Your Base of Fire units might be given Fire orders to suppress suspcted or identified enemy positions or you might use fire arcs to specify areas where covering fire will be used. In fact you might be using multiple methods in the same attack. If you have mortar, artyillery or even air support use it to try to suppress the enemy as much as possible. And don't forget smoke screens. Not so effective if boh sides have Thermal Imaging but still of some help, 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stagler Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 3. Sneaking up on vehicles. I notice this even with the vehicles and I have seen it in the videos. You see a known enemy unit then decide to use a vehicle to engage it. Try to come from the side or rear for a great shot? Nope! The enemy just spins around and engages you. But the computer doesn't seem to have a problem blowing up my tanks without me even seeing them! AI controlled vehicles constantly have a 360 degree target arc around them at all times. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snake_eye Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Usualy, once a defence position has been mostly ascertained you should have a base fire set in order to supress the enemy fire. Then you should attack with an assault force from a position preferably from the flank while the base fire is doing its suppresive fire. Never stage an assault directly to the enemy front. This is a basic drill assault and it Will work, but only if your fire power is equal at least and better superior to the one the enemy has. Good luck you will need it 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melchior Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Never attack a position without putting something like fire on it. Drop freaking smoke mortars on it if you must. But never charge men over an open area wider than a grenade throw without suppressing fire. The greenest conscripts can hit something eventually if they're just allowed to use your own men as target practice without a fight. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 AI controlled vehicles constantly have a 360 degree target arc around them at all times.Otherwise known as "not having a target arc", if you're closer than the edge of the TA.Meaning, I don't think they do. They just have a knowledge of the maximum/effective weapon range. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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