Guest coolguy101 Posted December 13, 1999 Share Posted December 13, 1999 What other game gives you as much excitement and detail as this!!!!! <img src=http://www.angelfire.com/md/wars/trackhit.jpg></img> [This message has been edited by coolguy101 (edited 12-12-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kid Posted December 13, 1999 Share Posted December 13, 1999 NONE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted December 13, 1999 Share Posted December 13, 1999 I agree. I'm so into this game that I actually get depressed when I see someone bash CM or Battlefront. The games great, Steve and Charles are great. What is up with these CM bashers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howardb Posted December 13, 1999 Share Posted December 13, 1999 As much as I love this game I'd still stand up for the right of people to bash this game if they got something intelligent to say What can they honestly complain about, any rumours ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted December 13, 1999 Share Posted December 13, 1999 Oh, I defend their right to bash CM and Battlefront. I just can't understand why anyone would want to. What I'm seeing (another forum) is complaining about; we're supposed to watch a movie a couple times to see what is going on (they complain about that being too passive), too much concern with presentation, and the claims of realism when the game doesn't explain everything that is goin on so you can check up on it. These points are not completely crazy, but I love this game! Point 1: watching the movie doesn't bother me or anyone I know in the least. Point 2: Good graphics etc. make the game more enjoyable and could be very important in drawing new people to wargames. Point 3: the hidden nature of what exactly is going on is necessary to deny the gamer info which he should not have for game play sake. I understand that this will make some people skeptical of the realism, but knowing the exact math of what is going on could cause gamey play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howardb Posted December 13, 1999 Share Posted December 13, 1999 -What I'm seeing (another forum) is complaining about; we're supposed to watch a movie a couple times to see what is going on Yeah and that's just a bonus free of charge. What other WW2 game can they be the director (I bet Steven Spielberg is feeling cheated) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted December 13, 1999 Share Posted December 13, 1999 HowardB, I know, it's fun so why is the movie watching thing a drawback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guachi Posted December 13, 1999 Share Posted December 13, 1999 I don't mind watching the movies multiple times at all. A couple times to get the gist of the turn and, if the turn is particularly interesting, a bunc more times for pure entertainment value. The interface conveys an astonshing amount of information in such an efficient manner that, with some practice, watching the movie more than a couple of times shouldn't be necessary. Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted December 13, 1999 Share Posted December 13, 1999 About the only times I watch the movie more than twice; 1: the movie is just plain exciting and I enjoy watching it many times 2: a tank got knocked out by an unspotted bazooka, shrek, etc. and I am trying to figure out its general location. If the tank doesn't even see the incoming rocket, you can forget this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted December 13, 1999 Share Posted December 13, 1999 The funny thing about the post in that other forum (we lurk elsehwere you know!) is that this person was crying for realism just before CM came out. In fact, his position was (at one point at least) that CM was going to be something akin to Doom meets Panzer General. So... then we release CM with unparalled realism and detail, and now he says it is too much and wants to go back to abstract hexes and game systems, which give you too much info about data that is a far cry from realistic to begin with. Anybody else hear the ax grinding instead of rational arguments? Steve P.S. We generally chuckle when we see such contradictory, reactionary, confused, illogical, irrational, and silly posts. In this case we were ROFL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Davie Posted December 14, 1999 Share Posted December 14, 1999 Steve; there will *always* be people who will take an opposing position just to be contrary. And then there will always be people who will want to air these opinions publicly just to stir up ****. Sometimes it's what makes these people tick. Then again, there are going to be people who 'just don't get it' in regards to a groundbreaking product. They misunderstand what is trying to be accomplished. And finally, there are going to be people who 'just can't get it' as regards the same. They find it hard if not impossible to adapt to such a radically new system (remember in the past you had said that there were probably a small number of peoplem who just wouldn't follow the new system?). So, uh don't laugh too heartily at these people....they may be future customers of yours. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard III Posted December 14, 1999 Share Posted December 14, 1999 Thomas Davie wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Steve; there will *always* be people who will take an opposing position just to be contrary. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I disagree!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest phoenix Posted December 14, 1999 Share Posted December 14, 1999 What "other" forum are we talking about. I'd like to take a gander. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted December 14, 1999 Share Posted December 14, 1999 Snort*.. I wouldn't recommend it.. The guy posting there has a major ship on his shoulder about BTS (and me hehe ). He's also someone it might be dangerous to get into a discussion with as I'm sure anyone who challenges him will find out [This message has been edited by Fionn (edited 12-13-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Davie Posted December 14, 1999 Share Posted December 14, 1999 Fionn; what the heck. Name the site. I'll figure out who he or she is. Shrug, I can always use a good mindless fight. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest phoenix Posted December 17, 1999 Share Posted December 17, 1999 I'd still like to see the site so I can make up my own mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted December 17, 1999 Share Posted December 17, 1999 http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/Forum11/HTML/000001.html Some advice -> don't bother "discussing" it with the individual in question. If he really wants to challenge Combat Mission, he should stop hiding out and come either here or go to USENT. The fact that he has done neither says a lot, and his posts say the rest. Tom, this individual is in the third group you mentioned. Not only "can't" he get what CM is about, but he holds a grudge against us from last year. We of course have our take on this, as well as his posts (old BBS) to back it up, but have found it utterly pointless to try "discussing" things with him. We don't need the aggravation, nor the dozen or so sales he and his ilk represent Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted December 17, 1999 Share Posted December 17, 1999 I tried talking to the guy, it didn't go well. He insulted me over the weirdest things. He also camouflaged the insults so people that we're paying close attention to the situation might not see it. What bothered me is it continued when I tried to extend the olive branch, last message I posted in that thread. Steve, I'm glad you guys know about this. Don't know that you should do anything, but I am glad that you are aware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Tom Posted December 17, 1999 Share Posted December 17, 1999 That guy likes to hear his own voice. I would post a message, but, I don't think he would notice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted December 17, 1999 Share Posted December 17, 1999 He also hasn't discussed CM on cdmag or any other forum he hangs out where people might really see and counter his biased arguments. I don't want to say too much about him but privately I have told Rick and others who showed me his posts not to get involved with him. He's a bit too dangerous and erratic in his behaviour IMO... Still, if you want to check it out go to Shrapnelgames One word of advice though.. The spin he puts on my article and several of the statements he makes about myself and others are a load of crap which he enjoys tossing because he holds a personal grudge against me because I ONCE disagreed with him in public ( he also holds personal grudges against many others and is "full of it" regarding his "role" in the industry. He's a nasty character and you should realise he comes at CM (and other games) with particular axes to grind. If any of you can disagree with him and avoid him insulting you I'll have to pick my jaw up off the floor. My advice, read it, disbelieve it and then leave. He's a nasty piece of work. ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted December 17, 1999 Share Posted December 17, 1999 Yeah, what Fionn said I am *not* going to go point for point about the various stuff up there, except for one thing. He makes very strong allusions to somehow being signifincantly involved in the early design process, specifically in regards to Command and Control. All I have to say is that this is utter BS and should be taken in the same way as the rest of his posts. Yes, he had suggestions (honestly don't remember any C&C ones), and he might have made some good points, but he had no influence on the game design worthy of note. And, as far as suggestions go, any regular poster here on our BBS has had more impact on CM than he ever had. So if he thinks of himself as influential, you guys should think the whole game was designed by yourselves Just needed to get THAT one off our chest Steve [This message has been edited by Big Time Software (edited 12-17-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaakko Posted December 17, 1999 Share Posted December 17, 1999 Wow, now that's a weird thread (the Shrapnel Games one). That's the first time I see a supposed "grognard" bash a wargame because of inferior graphics! Yet the guy is still most concerned about the "academic" qualities of wargaming...a slight contradiction, wouldn't you say? It seems to me that he is one of those people whose ego is somehow dependent on his hobby, and he can't allow himself be seen liking the "wrong" kind of game (would ruin his rep, you know, gotta have respect these days ). Reminds me of a fight in historical miniature wargaming circles recently (WAB anyone?). My 0.12 FIM (complete with amateur psychology ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Beman Posted December 17, 1999 Share Posted December 17, 1999 Steve said "And, as far as suggestions go, any regular poster here on our BBS has had more impact on CM than he ever had. So if he thinks of himself as influential, you guys should think the whole game was designed by yourselves" Does this mean we get name-credit? What about consultation fees? I'll send you an invoice as soon as I've reached a tally of the time I've put into this game. DjB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS_PanzerLeader Posted December 17, 1999 Share Posted December 17, 1999 My contention is he is one of those people who tries impress others with his astounding vocabulary, hoping to draw attention away from he fact he's full of sh**t. His condecending attitude is most annoying and his ideas that CC 'ariel' maps are a work of art are quite amusing. If I were BTs I would'nt worry about him or his sales because based on his postings he hasn't any friends to recommend a game too. SS_PanzerLeader....out [This message has been edited by SS_PanzerLeader (edited 12-17-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattias Posted December 18, 1999 Share Posted December 18, 1999 Now, this might be to show him too much consideration but: It seems like Mark is insulted by the way CM is marketed, and generally referred to, as revolutionary while it is, in his eyes, not a work of such superlative inventive quality as found in the best board games. Well, fair enough. History will tell if the solutions utilised in CM was the best in COMPUTER 3D SIMULTANEOUS EXECUTION WAR GAMES. Personally I think every single aspect of CM will be improved beyond recognition eventually and I bet BTS would agree My point is, CM can be said to be revolutionary simply by virtue of it’s unique and pioneering approach to representing combat. Other will follow in the tracks of CM, producing solutions to the seen and unseen weaknesses in CM. Ingenious solutions that will produce end results much superior to CM. What seems to upset him is the ease with which CM opens up new possibilities and delivers solution. While pressing “L” and looking at the colour of the line might not be as intellectually satisfying as applying the superb LOS determination system used in board game X, it is nevertheless just as effective. Games following CM will no doubt deliver LOS tools that makes CM look down right primitive. Basically he is comparing apples and oranges. Like many an affectionado before him he scoffs these newfangled ideas, praising the workmanship of old and belittling the achievements of modern technology. What has been serves us in that it can show us how any idea can be improved almost indefinitely but it will with time be overtaken by or mutate into something different. Board games have indeed achieved remarkable standards in effective and realistic abstractions but that doesn’t in any way change the fact that computers and now 3D offers new and, in the latter case, hereto unexplored avenues of development. CM is a paradigm change to put it simply… But it is, as always. only the beginning… And, as indeed with all changes, there will be those caught in between or left behind… M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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