Ukrainians Hotwire WWII Tank

[TheBog11]

I know it's a warzone, and people are dying over there, but...

there's something really noble about seeing an old IS-3 come to life, even if it might be used to a bad end.

[hobo]

Near that IS3 or T34 is the absolute last place I would want to be if it got in to a real fight with the Ukrainians. Give me a pickup truck with some speed and a few soldiers with PTRDs and AKs any day over that lumbering deathtrap. Next thing you know an IL2 is going to be flying over Odessa.

With that said, we are now seeing some great ideas for partisan tank rider uniform mods.

[Saferight]

Conclusion:

The IS-3 would seriously profit from beeing upgraded with ERA blocks. Probably some applique armor to prematurely trigger incoming HEAT warheads would help as well, but in the standard configuration, it wont stay alive long on a modern battlefield.

Thanks for the breakdown, so something like the improvised armor seen on the tanks in syria would do it some good but its still really a lumbering death trap.

[Saferight]

Another T-34 taken by the separatists..

[agusto]

I recently though about how they could get the most out of these old vehicles.

If they can get the maingun working and if they can get ammo for it, the modern vehicle that comes closest to the tactical capabilities of a T-34 on a modern battlefield is the Stryker MGS. The MGS is highly vulnerable to anything bigger than 14,5mm or HEAT-ish, it has a high calibre main gun and some off-road capabilities. Pretty much like the T-34. Well, excpet for the MGS' night fighing capability, the stabilized gun, communication equipment, laser range finder and other high-tech stuff i guess. Though NVGs, comm systems and a laser range finder could be fitted on the T-34 without too much effort i think.

One of the best features of the IS-3 is that its front is completely immune to anything that any of the Ukraininan BTR-variants or MT-LBs (wich are the most numerous APCs of the Ukrainian army) can throw at it. Only few of the Ukrainian APCs are equipped with ATGMs, most rely on their 14,5mm to 30mm main guns. This makes the IS-3 a much bigger threat than the T-34 because the latter can probably be pentrated easily by modern APDS, DU or HEAT rounds, even if they are of lower calibre.

So, what are they are going to do with those vehicles, tactically? I still believe in the ultra-high calibre sniper rifle theory i wrote about earlier ITT, but we will see.

[Saferight]

another video on the subject

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=44e_1404759349

Guy at the end according to someone in the comments section is the musuem director who said

"I tell them that the tank is not battle-worthy. They say that it will be repaired. Well, what could I do against armed men?"

Heres a quote from a article i'm reading.

Armed men who appeared at Donetsk's local war museum with heavy lifting gear winched a World War Two tank onto a flat-bed truck and drove it off. Squatting on top of the tank, one of them told a local online journalist: "We have got an engine to go in it. We have got some experts. We have to add the engine, ease the turret and it will be a working battle tank."

I think these guys are doomed they have obviously been abandoned by the state they wanted to join and no matter how many old tanks they take from monuments its not going to make a difference......

[agusto]

At least it is a T-55 this time (i think). It is slightly more modern than the IS-3 we saw in the previous videos: It has a stabilized gun (in theory at least, i doubt they are going to get it to work) and since the Ukrainian army has T-55 tanks in storage as well there might be a chance the Seperatists can loot some ammunation. Below are the armor and ammo storage scheme of the T-55:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-QNcoPfBwJmc/ULeQy7a91TI/AAAAAAAADvE/xJxUu8P3Zes/s1600/T-55-Armor-1.jpg

http://www.kotsch88.de/allgemeines/geschichte_t-72/t-54/T55-D14.jpg

Armor wise it is doing as bad as the IS-3.

I think these guys are doomed they have obviously been abandoned by the state they wanted to join and no matter how many old tanks they take from monuments its not going to make a difference......

Possibly they would be better off selling the T-34s and the IS-3 to collectors and buying RPGs and AKs with the money instead.

[John Kettler]

Saferight,

Fortunately, it's not a relic of WW II. It is, though, either a T-54 from one of the Guards "court" divisions which used to appear in the May Day parades (and spent most of the year preparing for or recovering from same) or is painted as such. Either way, the white piping is a dead giveaway of a parade paint job. Have to say the tank looks gorgeous, wherever it came from. Video clarity is amazing.

Here's a piece I call "Have fun with your (captured) BMD-1!" I sure did watching it.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f06_1397646500

Same variety of militants; different toy. A T-72.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=581_1402577748

Regards,

John Kettler

[agusto]

John, how do you know it is a T-54 and not a T-55? They look very similar to me.

[Saferight]

John, how do you know it is a T-54 and not a T-55? They look very similar to me.

I think the barrel is different.. No fume evacuator on the end?

[John Kettler]

agusto,

Saferight is correct. From the T-54/55 Wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-54/55

Here's a T-54-2.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-54/55#mediaviewer/File:T-54-2_Morozov.jpg

And here's a T-55. The fume extractor is very much in evidence, as is the Luna active IR system signally absent from the T-54-2 in the first pic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-54/55#mediaviewer/File:T-55_4.jpg

Regards,

John Kettler

[agusto]

Ahh, okay. Thanks for the info.

[John Kettler]

agusto,

Here's a great doc on the origin and development of the T-54 and T-55 tanks. The footage is amazing and includes interior sequences with such goodies as the sight picture on a tank without gyro stabilization and reloading in a tank on the move.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FB5X1Z71W_Y

Regards,

John Kettler

[Saferight]

Exhibition of arms captured from the separatists... Few relics from WW2 in the bunch..

Strangely if this article is true weapons aren't the only thing they're using from WW2

http://www.buzzfeed.com/maxseddon/documents-show-rebel-justice-in-east-ukraine-was-bureaucrati

[John Kettler]

Saferight,

Suggest you send the ZIS-3 to me and get the modders cracking on the blue T-72. It appears the so-called separatists have lots of goodies not available at (civilian) Guns 'r Us. RPGs modern and not, directional mines and ATGMs. The firing post in the last sequence is, I believe, usable by the Konkurs and the dreaded Kornet-E. The condition of the PTRD-41 ATR is simply dreadful. Am going to hazard a guess the primo condition ZIS-3 was taken from a military museum?

Which gun store do you know which carries Grad? Here's the product demo. Grad wasn't designed to kill tanks (learned this at classified CIA threat briefing I attended), only M113s and softskins, yet someone forgot to tell these recipients.

http://rt.com/news/172160-east-ukraine-military-killed/

Regards,

John Kettler

[Saferight]

I would guess John that their equipment is both looted from Ukrainian stockpiles and stuff pouring over the border from Guns R's Us as you call it ... What percentage both those sources contribute we wont know until its all over and someone conducts a study..

Here is another piece from late WW2 seen rolling through Lugansk today...

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=38c_1405267968

[batteran]

Hey, the IS3 have been recaptured by the ukrainian army:

Nte the additional fuel tank, and machinegun mount. He doesn't seem to have to suffered.

[Kieme(ITA)]

Thanks for sharing,

I really hope this giant gets the deserved rest once again, it's like looking at a mummy digged out by graverobbers, retaken by authorities and then waiting to be placed in a museum.

By the way, the second suspension seems to be broken, might be interesting to see the other side.

Oh, and I see an interesting building in the background, looks like one of the additional CMRT structures might easily fit CMBS.

[batteran]

Another view:

[Michael Emrys]

I dunno, for me the JS-3 has the look of something out of a bad sci-fi flick. It just doesn't have the classic lines of the JS-2.

Here it is, brutal, ruthless, classic. The ultimate expression of tankness:

Michael

[Saferight]

[John Kettler]

Michael Emrys,

I understand your argument based on aesthetics, but the IS-3 not only looked scary, but it had enormous ballistic resistance and a big nasty gun. It is precisely why the US went to all the trouble and expense of fielding an answer--the M103 heavy tank. I've seen one, and it's a beast. Nor was the threat from the IS-3 a paper threat. Episode from the 1967 War, with IS-3Ms.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iosif_Stalin_tank#IS-3

"Even the 90 mm AP shell fired by the main gun of the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) M48 Patton tanks could not penetrate the frontal armour of the IS-3s at normal battle ranges.[15] There were a number of engagements between the M48A2 Pattons of the IDF 7th Armoured Brigade and IS-3s supporting Egyptian positions at Rafah in which several M48A2s were knocked out in the fighting."

The IS-3 was also what led to the design, development and deployment of the British Conqueror heavy tank.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conqueror_tank

"The FV 214 Conqueror, also known as "Tank, Heavy No. 1, 120 mm Gun, Conqueror"[1] was a British heavy tank of the post-war era. It was developed as a response to the Soviet Joseph Stalin IS-3 heavy tanks and carried a larger 120 mm gun[2] compared to the 20-pounder (83.4 mm) gun carried by its peer the Centurion. Its role was to provide long range anti-tank support for Centurion tanks."

Regards,

John Kettler

[Kieme(ITA)]

[Saferight]

T-34 all Mad Max'd out

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky_RwtIiBdg

[lordhedgwich]

And the second victim is the local WW2 museum it seems.

Somalia -1990s. Looks like there is not a single post-1945 weapon present. Also note the horrible trigger discipline of the girl/boy in the front!

actually i think amny STGs survived ww2. I know Hungary used them up till the mid 80s im sure other countries used them post war also. Recently a whole cache was discovered in the middle east. So im sure the remaining STGs used by some countries were sold to africa and the middle east.