John Kettler Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 No, this isn't about HMGs firing in indirect lay! Rather, it's about relocating fully assembled German HMGs in combat. I've seen a pic, maybe footage, of the high carry. This is the low carry, demonstrated by a group of Italian FJ re-enactors on a tripod mounted MG-34. http://www.progetto900.com/reenactor/reenactor-gothic-line-luftwaffe-fallschirmjager-tropical-MG34-lafette-paracadutisti-tedeschi-linea-gotica_03.jpg Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 It's in the game... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted June 7, 2013 Author Share Posted June 7, 2013 c3k, With a full ammo load? Also, I don't know how fast these re-enactors are moving, but they appear to be in some sort of dash, judging from their postures. Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 Remind us how many meters can an HMG be moved in the game without having to dissemble. Thanks. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 It's 4 action spots, so about 32 meters. Just keep in mind this is only for the MG42 and MG34 (and the US 1919A4 MMG). Heavier machine guns such as the M1917 and Vickers must be packed up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted June 7, 2013 Author Share Posted June 7, 2013 Erwin, No idea, and I did spend some time with my nose in the CMBN manual--which I wish had an index. My recollection is that an HMG had to be packed up, moved, then deployed, but I could well be wrong. That is, though, what I observed while playing "Barkmann's Corner." I think. The manual talks about weapons listed as semi-deployed, which can apparently fire in that condition. I suspect, for both the HMG-34 and 42, this represents the bipod equipped gun firing while not on the tripod. Until the thing's fully deployed, I don't believe it can fire as an HMG. Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stikkypixie Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 Erwin, No idea, and I did spend some time with my nose in the CMBN manual--which I wish had an index. My recollection is that an HMG had to be packed up, moved, then deployed, but I could well be wrong. That is, though, what I observed while playing "Barkmann's Corner." I think. The manual talks about weapons listed as semi-deployed, which can apparently fire in that condition. I suspect, for both the HMG-34 and 42, this represents the bipod equipped gun firing while not on the tripod. Until the thing's fully deployed, I don't believe it can fire as an HMG. Regards, John Kettler How about just starting the game and test it out ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted June 7, 2013 Author Share Posted June 7, 2013 stickypixie, Am still in CMBN training wheels and am working my way, slowly, through the smaller scenarios. My HMG-42 got shot to pieces before it could set up in "A New Dawn," and never got fully deployed in "Barkmann's Corner." The one that was fully deployed, I think, got blasted by tank fire. Shall keep an eye out, though. Oh, and I'd love to know how far the FJ re-actors went and how fast. Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 stickypixie, Am still in CMBN training wheels and am working my way, slowly, through the smaller scenarios. My HMG-42 got shot to pieces before it could set up in [combat situations] That's what the scenario editor and/or quick battles against single FOs are for. Running some drills unopposed is a good way to get a feel for movement. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 Thanks Vanir. That 32 meters info is valuable. Am impressed that BF models short distance moves that don't require packing up. So, it's definitely only for these 3 MG's: MG 34 and 42 and US 1919A4? No Italian or Brit? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 So, it's definitely only for these 3 MG's: MG 34 and 42 and US 1919A4? No Italian or Brit? Bren guns on tripods? Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 So, it's definitely only for these 3 MG's: MG 34 and 42 and US 1919A4? No Italian or Brit? I don't own CMFI so you'll have to test the Italians for yourself. As for the Brits, at least in CMBN the only machine gun they seem to have other than the Vickers is the Bren which does not deploy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted June 8, 2013 Author Share Posted June 8, 2013 Have sent an E-mail to the Progetto900 re-enactment group whose pic started this discussion. In that E-mail I ask detailed questions, the answers to which may give us several real world points of data.I've invited the group to reply either here or to me by E-mail. Hope we get not only a reply, but an informative one! Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted June 9, 2013 Author Share Posted June 9, 2013 Got some answers. Excellent stuff! Much food here for groggy thought and possible incorporation into WW II CMx2/CMx3 games/sims. Hello, we know the game, one our member was in the staff of another game (ARMA) mod called "INVASION 44", his nickname is "Rebus". About your questions: Q1. How many men were involved in the move? I see three in the pic, but were there others? "1) Depends on the men that are available in the MG squad, but 2 is the number to move without problems the Lafette (tripod) with MG, other men, if available, transport ammo boxes and accessories. If you want transport all ready without dissembly." Q2. In addition to the complete MG, how many rounds of ammo were carried by the crew? Is that all the ammo, or do ammo bearers bring up the rest later once the MG's in its new firing location? If so, how many more rounds must be brought forward? "2) Usually each ammo box contains belts of 250 cartridges, about the number of ammo box, depend on the men available and the supply to the unit. An hand can transport 2 ammo boxes, because the hey not simmetric handles, then you can easy transport 4 ammo boxes with the 2 available hads of a crew (if k98 transported on the back with strap). There was the "tragestell" too, that is a frame that can transport 3 mg ammo boxes on the back: http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/military_photos/heer-luftwaffe-kriegsmarine-uniforms-3-reich/14850d1233089419t-luftwaffe-feld-division-uniforms-headgear-equipment-and-insignias-thread-tragestell1.jpg " Q3. How far was the MG moved in the event where the photo was shot? Q4. What's the greatest distance this has been done in your re-enactments? "3-4) move the MG on tripod is a tactic to change mg nest during a battle RUNNING and without lose time in dissembly and assembly of the lafette, it's good for movements not over 50 meters in my opinion. Over this, it's better other tactic, gunner take mg and he's operative while the crew transport tripod (unmonted and closed to back) and accessories." 5. Do you have any direct evidence to support such a move (books, period film, oral history and such)? If so, please cite. "5) yes, there are original videos, but, at the moment is hard to find them, on youtube you can find examples of training of german soldiers with MG and tripod and other footages in combat where you can see something. Like these: http://youtu.be/xwRCUrzlTao " Q6 I should've asked... "6)about the times, with 3 mens (mg gunner and 2 crew) with tripod on back, optic in box, belts in 4/5 ammo boxes ... you are operative with a mg nest approximately in 1 minute." Best regards, Andrea from PROGETTO900. Molto Grazie to Andrea and the PROGETTO900 crew for this marvelous grog material! What I got was far better and more informative than I dared hope. Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted June 21, 2013 Author Share Posted June 21, 2013 Unless my eyes deceive me, I believe I've found combat footage showing a fully assembled MG-34 being moved at a smart clip. Please see 1:51 in the vid. Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.