Baneman Posted May 5, 2013 Author Share Posted May 5, 2013 Baneman, this is a great AAR! It looks like that HMG team is in or damn close to a minefield. That might be affecting their behavior. it would mine! Well, it's in the next AS from the foxhole one. The idea was that if the enemy got that far, they'd try to occupy the foxholes and boom ! But as you can see, the HMG team were perfectly placed in the foxholes, then they all collectively went mad. "Krazy Klaus" accidently dropped his mushroom collection in the coffeepot ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Bull Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 Hey guys, Need an opponent to play against in this scenario. Have already played it twice as Germans, I am now looking to play as the US. So if anyone wants a go at defending as Germans, send me email/msg/reply here. Bull 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macisle Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 Hey guys, Need an opponent to play against in this scenario. Have already played it twice as Germans, I am now looking to play as the US. So if anyone wants a go at defending as Germans, send me email/msg/reply here. Bull Thank you very much for playing the scenario. I hope you had fun! I'd sure love to get a PM with your feedback on it. Perhaps when you've finished playing as the Amis, you could drop me a PM with your thoughts on what could be improved/better balanced. Once I get adequate feedback, I'll tweak things and submit an updated version to the Repository. Also, anybody who has played V1/1.2, I'd dearly love to get your feedback as well--even if just a quick PM to say which version you played and which side won. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macisle Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 Oh, BTW guys--I'm also working on a new scenario idea using the same map. I want to switch the Axis to attack and make it a real house-to-house infantry fight with no AFVs and greatly reduced arty. I'm thinking Heer infantry vs. Brit Airborne on D-day in an all-or-nothing mission to take (as in "occupy") all buildings in the hamlet in 60 minutes. I don't have much time, so basically, I'll just be matching QB force point levels, throwing it together and perhaps uploading it to the Repository in the next couple of days. Any thoughts? (And sorry, Baneman. -Not trying to derail the thread.) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macisle Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 Baneman, On your battle situation: Man, I feel for you on the HMG let downs! I actually noticed I little something like your first problem a few days ago testing something. It does look like HMG bugs still exist. It might be a good idea for you to submit your file to BF so they can look into it. If this keeps up, it could really be deadly handicap. What is your shreck situation regarding the maruading tank in the center (Mr. ToD, I think)? Can you get anything over from the East flank? How about PFs? Things are sure getting exciting. -Am waiting anxiously for your next report. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 A TRP strike has a 3 minute delay, but a Cease Fire also takes a full turn to take effect. What I wouldn't give for an on-map mortar... You don't seem to get the "Adjust Mission" with a TRP plotted strike. Pity, moving some of my strikes with a 1 minute delay cost would have been ideal. Yeah, you can only adjust a TRP mission while it's actually falling, and most systems firing less than "Maximum" or "Long" you won't actually get the footprint to move before the mission is done. Some direct lay 81mm would be welcome, I'm sure. Nasty stuff, that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baneman Posted May 5, 2013 Author Share Posted May 5, 2013 Right, on the far left, the backup team arrives to engage the edge-hugging enemy. The incoming is more than they can take - after taking a casualty, they panic. Relief comes as the 120mm start to drop, sadly, none have so far fallen in the road or the enemy side of the hedge At least the enemy wont be moving next turn and they should recover. Centre left the team moving up fire at the new enemy next to the road. They also take a casualty towards the end of the turn and panic, but the enemy are also seen pulling out. Unfortunately, the hedge here is impenetrable, so their HQ has to run a long way around to soothe them. This manoeuver is undertaken with trepidation as another spotting round falls in the middle of the open field. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baneman Posted May 5, 2013 Author Share Posted May 5, 2013 Centre right still looks bad. The tank lays down a ferocious barrage on the house which the ATG guys are trying to flee. One is hit, the other makes it downstairs with the precious MG34. The threatened team choose to run the long way away and lose 2 men a metre or so from safety. The last guy goes to ground. More men are seen moving up to the side of the house - they are fired at from the team on the centre left ( see pic above ), but no one is hit as far as we know. The HMG is told to move up to the hedge and deploy to thin out this threat, but they perform prodigies of ... stupidity. No firing from them Gaaah ! Details later Far right, there's very little activity. I'm keeping one team on the edge, just in case there are guys sneaking through the grass. But the lone schreck guy is heading to the rear where the truck should meet him to bring him round to the centre. A lone puzzling spotting round falls out inthe middle of nowhere. The American FO hasn't sobered up completely it seems. The Tired Schreck team in nomansland has a Cover Armour Arc just in case the 2nd tank decides to try the same trick as Mr Trundle o'Doom in the big field. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baneman Posted May 5, 2013 Author Share Posted May 5, 2013 The HMG. That HMG. They were ordered to run up to the hedgeline and deploy. Quite simple. They reach the hedge quickly as it was only half an AS away. Perfectly positioned, they begin to deploy. Unhappily, during the 10 seconds of Deploy time, the Gunner sees fit to crawl away from the hedge and plonks the tripod down as far away as he can ! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baneman Posted May 5, 2013 Author Share Posted May 5, 2013 The HMG now swivels to obey the Face command and is about as useful as Goering. Looking at the team as I'm giving orders for the next turn, you can see that it's almost impossible to tell which AS they think they're in. I've tried the same order again, hoping for a miracle. This looks pretty definitely like a bug to me - every deployment order that has followed a movement order has screwed up ( 5 times in this battle ). The setup deployment HMG's were in the correct position and could shoot. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethaface Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 Great AAR! Good story telling, excellent pictures and beatiful map too! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 This looks pretty definitely like a bug to me - every deployment order that has followed a movement order has screwed up ( 5 times in this battle ). The setup deployment HMG's were in the correct position and could shoot. Nice screenies. You even clearly show that they had the "standard" Face order across the obstacle that they're supposed to be covering. While I'll mention that problems with bocage deployments of MGs have been rare IME, with that "good practice", it certainly looks like something squiffy is going on here, and it's not "team members deciding to hike to Timbuktu". I'm hoping you've not got H2HH clearing out turns as soon as the next one arrives, and some kind BFC-collaborator has the time to have a look at 'em... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeW Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 I've noticed this behavior with the face command as well. The unit goes to the back side of the AS away from the face command side. Try a target arc command in the direction you want them to face and see if that helps. They should setup on the proper side of the AS. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 I've also noticed more problems with "HQ" teams from MG sections. The leader seems to want to hog the good vantage points, pushing the MG back off the "firing step" into redundancy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baneman Posted May 5, 2013 Author Share Posted May 5, 2013 I forgot to mention the other HMG in the foxholes. I ordered them back to the foxholes and to deploy again. They did that, then crawled away again - this time the gunner and one other guy stayed behind so they actually have a blue LoS line to the hedge the enemy are behind. I told them to area fire on it, hoping that a) They will, in fact, fire on it and This might encourage their mates to return. The enemy are probably hugging the ground right now, but I'd rather fire fruitlessly for 2-3 turns and keep them down than have the gunner wander off again. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kohlenklau Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 Hang in there! Don't let it frazzle you. Pull those effers way back and let them rekindle their national socialism or whatever. Set-up some new ambushes and call in mortars. Maybe try that harass/light fire on maximum duration and then adjust it each turn. He'll get a few mortar hits every turn for a long time. GO BIG GREY! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baneman Posted May 9, 2013 Author Share Posted May 9, 2013 I'm just sitting hoping he takes just one more turn to prep his assault - then everything in that road is gonna get toasted ! But he's still absent on emergency business trip. I tried to move rather than cancel and replot the circular barrage that was further to the right - supposedly 2 mins to do this, I just hope it wont waste some rounds on the old target location. I've generally used on-map mortars in tight battles like this, so not too au fait with the intricacies of moving plotted barrages when they're close to dropping. I'm not in the grip of despair just yet, but the HMG "wonkiness" has enabled him to run through a couple of areas where I hoped to slow him down more. If he can exploit his breakthrough, numbers will definitely be on his side. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macisle Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 Have you thought about using some harassing fire? If you have a spotter that can keep eyes on it, that could really slow your opponent down and keep him off-balance. BTW guys, I went ahead and submitted a V2.5 version file to the Repository a couple of US business days ago (not up yet...cough...cough). It gives the Germans the same force that Baneman is using, but instead of mixed mines, the German player gets "real" AP and AT mines. Of course, I can't tell you about changes to the US side--other than the drunk mortar team has likely been sacked. (Oh, and I've decided not to do the second scenario for the map that I was thinking about. Work demands are too high right now. -No time.) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kohlenklau Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 Macisle, atarashi ni no go? Sugoi! Arigato gozaima$hita. Jikan no tame oksan ni yoroshuku. AP AT wa hai i kangai, mixsu minesu wa dame yo! It is gonna be even bloodier with strict AP in the most likely footpaths. Thanks. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kohlenklau Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 Hey Baneman, Shucks, I hate to tell you, but I did some testing a few weeks back and it DOES seems to simultaneously pound the old target line while adjusting. the rounds counter seems to hang up but the rounds continue to come down and then finally they are landing on the new target line...That is why the light/harass rate of fire seems a good idea to me as a defender. At least you don't fire it all off so quickly... Emergency business trip! Sheesh... GO BIG GREY! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 Yeah, the "adjusting" battery, particularly on TRP missions, keeps firing at the old coordinates until the adjustment takes and they start firing on the new coords. I think that when the adjustment is off a TRP, there's a "spotting round" sequence between stopping firing at the original coords, and zeroing in on the new target, where the rate of fire is reduced to the usual one round a minute or so. So if an adjustment "off-TRP" takes 4 minutes, you might get 2 minutes of "continuation" bombardment at the called rate, and 2 minutes of spotting at 1 RPM. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baneman Posted May 12, 2013 Author Share Posted May 12, 2013 Ok we're back in business and it's all bad ! Everyone was correct in that the barrage adjustment isn't adjusting without expending all the rounds in the original location ( I hope that at least a couple will fall in the new location, but I'm not holding my breath ). I guess "Adjust Mission" should really be called "tell them to change target, but don't expect them to do it" I get a time delay, but I don't see why telling the battery that the target has changed doesn't stop them from firing on the old co-ords. "Target's changed guys, but fire anyway" seems to be their commander's order. Bummer. Anyway, the barrage on the far left all landed in a tight circle ( I was hoping for a wider spread so some would fall over the hedge ). The wonky HMG does some area firing this turn, but the guys behind the hedge still get a grenade over where my team is and take a guy out. They panic so that flank is cracking fast. His Stuart backs up the hill and ends the turn with LoS to my other flank guard. Scheisse ! Centre left, the panicked team run back to the shelter of a house and their HQ arrives to scream and bellow soothing blandishments at them. I move a schreck team across the road to hopefully get some AT assets closer to the Stuart in the field. Second HQ ( for the team firing laterally ) will move back up to the hedge next turn in case the enemy push up again. Most worrying is the movement of the other Stuart back to the main road. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baneman Posted May 12, 2013 Author Share Posted May 12, 2013 On the far right, we had a grandstand view of our adjusted barrage falling where it was originally targetted 4 Enemy teams were seen moving back to the map edge, but I do have at least one team over there to cover that. I'm pulling another team off the line here as he seems to have given up on the idea of running across this field, but a new errant spotting round may still indicate a barrage incoming. Where exactly is impossible to tell. All 4 of the teams seen ran across the minefield again. Only in the last second of the turn do we see one pop. Oh well, better than nothing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baneman Posted May 12, 2013 Author Share Posted May 12, 2013 Centre right it's all happening here right now. This is an overview pic to show the defensive positions. More infantry run across the field and appear unaffected by the lateral fire coming in. The HMG pack and unpack again and get it wrong again. Despite being in a perfect position to kill everything hugging the wall of the house, they haven't fired a shot and have deployed as far from the hedge as possible 5 times !. This turn they also take a casualty. The Stuart repositions again although he can't quite see my surviving HMG ammo guy ( with MG34 ) and the other house team huddling in the courtyard. Another view of the centre right area which better shows the action. You can see the Stuart move and his buddy in the rear who is moving back to the main road. The schreck team who moved up have orders to run past the wall and then back behind it. This should give them fleeting LoS on the Stuart. It's a bit of a forlorn hope, but I have no better idea to get AT asset eyes on him. Whether they'll get away is iffy, since the Stuart is buttoned and should therefore spot them with ease. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baneman Posted May 12, 2013 Author Share Posted May 12, 2013 A close up of the "Wonky HMG" showing that something very strange is going on here. The gunner has maybe a toe in the AS they're actually in, but the other guys ... ??? They did obey the area fire order this turn so I daren't move them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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