ammo question

[thebigJ_A]

Just a quick question, as I couldn't find this in the manual(s).

I've been having my soldiers load up on weapons and ammo from halftracks and such, and while doing so I noticed the different colored text that ammo in a vehicle can be listed with.

In the list of ammo, I've seen text in green, white, and dark gray. I presume green is ammo the vehicle has for itself, and white that which can be taken with the "Acquire" command. Corrct me if that's either wrong or not the whole picture. For the life of me I can't fathom what the dark gray ammo signifies. For instance, I've got a bunch of halftracks in this fourth mission of the campaign I'm playing with the exact same ammo loadout, except the one carrying MG troops has an additional 250 rounds of 7.92mm AP in gray text. At first I thought it might be the passengers', but they've got their own in non-corresponding quantities. Plus one of my armored cars has 10 rounds for its 20mm gun in gray, on top of the larger green amount and that hasn't got passenders, nor can its crew lug around the main gun. I've since noticed it on tanks, as well.

I jut realized I'm being too verbose, as usual. How do I make sense of the ammo list, is what I mean to ask.

[womble]

First, and most important to know is that the grey ammo is unavailable for use. The rest is fungible, as far as I can tell, within the rules of who owns it. A crew's pistol ammo can't be Acquired by passengers, though the ammo (generally in round hundreds or 50s if fully supplied) carried by the vehicle is available.

Why the grey ammo shows up, I'm not sure, but I'm convinced it's at least something to do with the resupply between campaign battles; it doesn't occur in other forms of the game, so far as I've noticed.

[LukeFF]

Green is ammo reserved for the vehicle. White is ammo that can be acquired by troops. "White" ammo will be automatically acquired by the vehicle crew if the "Green" ammo is expended. E.g., a halftrack with a .50cal MG will automatically start using .50cal ammo from the "White" category once all of its "Green" ammo has run out.

[thebigJ_A]

First, and most important to know is that the grey ammo is unavailable for use. The rest is fungible, as far as I can tell, within the rules of who owns it. A crew's pistol ammo can't be Acquired by passengers, though the ammo (generally in round hundreds or 50s if fully supplied) carried by the vehicle is available.

Why the grey ammo shows up, I'm not sure, but I'm convinced it's at least something to do with the resupply between campaign battles; it doesn't occur in other forms of the game, so far as I've noticed.

Yes, I'm playing the Panzer Marsch campaign after doing the two beginner campaigns the manual goes through. (It's quite the challenge, so I'm not sure this is how I'm "supposed" to be learning, but it's fun!)

It's good to know that the gray ammo is unavailable, but I can't figure out *why* a certain amount is so.

I've figured out that the list of ammo will show, in green, what I think is supposed to be the total amount the unit has access to rather than just what it's holding (via sharing with nearby units, I presume). But, the amount that the crew is holding doesn't seem to be factored in. The same seems to be so with MG squads (whose heavy MGs seem to act like un-dismountable vehicles).

If I take the crew out of a vehicle with a 7.92mm machine gun and have them take ammo from a truck, then put them back, the ammo they got isn't shown in the middle box. (Easiest to see for me now because the halftrack only had 7.92 AP, and the crew got plain 7.92 (non-AP)from the truck). Does that mean I can't resupply my vehicle ammo that way, that only the crew itself would use that ammo, separately from the vehicle's weapon? Do I know have a driver and gunner, personally armed with pistols, loaded up with ammo that'll never get used? (Unless... perhaps if they died, and say an MG team looted their corpses.... sorry, I meant 'buddy-aid". My rpg roots show!)

Which leads me to another, more specific question. I found that my (German) MG teams would use AP ammo taken from halftracks, on top of or as well as their normal non-AP ammo. I presume this deals better with soft and lightly armored vehicles. Is that so? Is it modeled? And will the rifle-armed soldiers use the AP ammo, or just the MGs in the squad? I don't want to end up with squads who can't shoot their small arms because the ammo I gave them is only good for the MGs.

Edit: Hell, I did it again. sry.

[agusto]

As far as i know, the german MG 34, 42, FG 42, G43 and kar98krifles can fire all types of german 7,92x57 ammunition.

You have to be careful though when loading troops up with additional ammo, the Stg44 only fires the 7,92x33 aka 7,92K.

[womble]

It's good to know that the gray ammo is unavailable, but I can't figure out *why* a certain amount is so.

I think it's something to do with carry-over from previous scenarios. I've seen AT teams which had snagged multiple extra rounds from jeeps and such show up the next time with lots of greyed-out zook rounds. I have a sneaking suspicion that I've seen similar results from having raided the transport for extras during setup.

If I take the crew out of a vehicle with a 7.92mm machine gun and have them take ammo from a truck, then put them back, the ammo they got isn't shown in the middle box...Does that mean I can't resupply my vehicle ammo that way...

Sadly, yes. I don't think there's any way to resupply any vehicle weapon with ammo; it's a one-way transaction.

...AP ammo...deals better with soft and lightly armored vehicles.

And punches through cover better too.

Is it modeled?

I don't know for sure, but I'd have to wonder why the distinction is drawn if it doesn't make any difference.

And will the rifle-armed soldiers use the AP ammo, or just the MGs in the squad? I don't want to end up with squads who can't shoot their small arms because the ammo I gave them is only good for the MGs.

Again, I can't be sure, but I can't recall having actually run out of non-AP, and the AP ammo count seems to go down first (being, I suppose, the "best" ammo type).

[c3k]

Vehicles: the white ammo is what the crew has. The green ammo is what the vehicle has.

Disembark the crew. The white ammo is their personal weapon ammo.

Grey? That's not readily available, but there. (Give them some time, and they'll get to it after the regular ammo is gone. Represents, say, shells stored under the floor grate and difficult to get to, as opposed to rounds stored in the ready racks.)

The above is from memory. I -think- it's right. YMMV.

Ken

[thebigJ_A]

Vehicles: the white ammo is what the crew has. The green ammo is what the vehicle has.

Disembark the crew. The white ammo is their personal weapon ammo.

Grey? That's not readily available, but there. (Give them some time, and they'll get to it after the regular ammo is gone. Represents, say, shells stored under the floor grate and difficult to get to, as opposed to rounds stored in the ready racks.)

The above is from memory. I -think- it's right. YMMV.

Ken

If that's the case, why would the gray ammo only appear on a few of the vehicles, and why (if what was said above is true), only in later battles of a campaign?

Vehicles: the white ammo is what the crew has. The green ammo is what the vehicle has.

Disembark the crew. The white ammo is their personal weapon ammo.

IDK about that. The ammo the crew itself has is on the left, and is often just 9mm (for the Germans) for their pistols and SMGs, while there is white MG ammo, and Panzerfausts, and 9mm in the main ammo display too, regardless of the crew's weapons.

[c3k]

What vehicle are you looking at?

[DasMorbo]

There are three categories of ammo on board of, let's say, a Sd.Kfz.251 Halftrack:

1. Ammo for the mounted gun:

this is the greyed out ammo, it is for the weapons fixed on the vehicle. In this case 250 rounds for the top mounted MG42.

If the ammo is spend, the crew will use what they can find, the 'white ammo' for example.

2. Ammo loaded for general purpose:

this is the white one, evreybody in the vehicle can grab it as needed. In this case 7,92mm AP (for: MG34, MG42, Kar98K (completely interchangable for all mentioned weapons!)), 9mm (for: MP40, Pistol)

Once taken it can not be given back!

3. Ammo carried by personnel:

passengers as well as crew (!) have their personal ammo, passengers and crew can aquire from the 'white ammo'.

The reason why the ammo 'disapears' when the crew bails out is that you only have limited data on what's up with the vehicle, if there is no crew to 'report'. Once they remount to their ride, the ammo list will show again - as well as all the other specific info like damage reports and so on.

Hope that helps!

Olf

[womble]

There are three categories of ammo on board of, let's say, a Sd.Kfz.251 Halftrack:

1. Ammo for the mounted gun:

this is the greyed out ammo

In my install, the "loaded" ammo for a half track is green, not grey. You only, IME, see grey ammo in campaigns where the unit in question has appeared before.

So there's grey, green and white, plus personal ammo. I checked US and German.

[DasMorbo]

I didn't notice that difference yet. But it seems like grey and green indicate roughly the same status.

Gotta check on that!

[tanq_tonic]

Sorry for the noobness here --- I have RTFM (and searched the forums) but still am having a problem.

How do you direct a unit to "enter" a vehicle to retrieve ammo? as the manual states, in "order to use Acquire, the infantry unit has to enter the the vehicle". For the life of me I cannot find the mechanism to get the unit to enter.

I have looked on whole squads, split them into teams, and tried with weapons teams as well. Still scratching my head. Thnx in advance.

Btw, I am a *longtime* CM guy (13 yrs now....), but only recently picked up CM2...

[Badger73]

Sorry for the noobness here --- I have RTFM (and searched the forums) but still am having a problem.

How do you direct a unit to "enter" a vehicle to retrieve ammo? as the manual states, in "order to use Acquire, the infantry unit has to enter the the vehicle". For the life of me I cannot find the mechanism to get the unit to enter.

I have looked on whole squads, split them into teams, and tried with weapons teams as well. Still scratching my head. Thnx in advance.

Btw, I am a *longtime* CM guy (13 yrs now....), but only recently picked up CM2...

Select the unit and move it onto the icon for the vehicle desired. When the unit is too big or the vehicle can't take on any more passengers, you'll see the reddish "can't go there" (forgot what it looks like) destination icon at the end of your movement line. Otherwise you'll see the greenish "okay to go there" destination icon. If the unit is too big, break it down to smallest section and move that section into the vehicle icon. If the vehicle is already occupied, disembark the unit of malingering bums already inside (after "acquiring" sufficient ammo) and send them back to the front.

When pixeltruppen arrive at said vehicle, the animation shows the tailgate / rear door opening after which the truppen embark, take a seat, and the tailgate / rear door closes. Once seated in the vehicle that unit's "Admin" tab activates the "Acquire" and "Dismount" buttons as valid options. Always "Acquire" first (you should see the unit's ammo count increase by the acquired amount). Acquire in small amounts until you get the hang of it. Then "Disembark" to move out and share. Good luck and good gaming.

[womble]

Select the unit [and a movement mode] and move [the mouse cursor] onto the icon for the vehicle desired. [if the unit is eligible to embark] you'll see the [a green down arrow] destination icon [on the mouse cursor].

Just adding a bit of precision for clarity's sake.

[Badger73]

Just adding a bit of precision for clarity's sake.

@ Womble - Nicely stated. Much clearer now. Thank you.

@ tanq_tonic - as Womble says.

[TheBlackHand]

Why is there no mortar ammo in these resupply trucks . . . or is there? I don't seem to have any luck resupplying my mortar teams.

[womble]

Why is there no mortar ammo in these resupply trucks . . . or is there? I don't seem to have any luck resupplying my mortar teams.

Most vehicles don't have heavy weapons. You'll find infantry AT weapons in half tracks, and some jeeps in american formations (can't speak to CW equippage). Mortar ammo is only found in the trucks and tracks associated with mortar elements of the official TO.

[A Canadian Cat]

(can't speak to CW equippage).

Some of the CW trucks have 50mm amo for the British and Canadians (possibly the Polish - not sure). I am not sure where in the TOE they have or do not have mortar amo but I have seen it in a couple of scenarios.

[Baneman]

While on the subject of ammo - I see that 2.00 and 2.01 have come and gone, but the issue of 7.92K ammo being absolutely unavailable for resupply in a battle ( ok, ok, 60 rounds in a bunker, but that's hardly more than 2-3 bursts anyway ) doesn't seem to have been addressed.

Many's the battle when some muppet in my army has buddy-aided a guy and ended up with an Stg and ... 3 rounds or some equally useless amount of ammo.

C'mon BFC, either give us some ammo or stop the Stg from being picked up - it effectively removes a guy from the squad since all he can do is admire and polish the weapon.

[DasMorbo]

While on the subject of ammo - I see that 2.00 and 2.01 have come and gone, but the issue of 7.92K ammo being absolutely unavailable for resupply in a battle ( ok, ok, 60 rounds in a bunker, but that's hardly more than 2-3 bursts anyway ) doesn't seem to have been addressed.

Many's the battle when some muppet in my army has buddy-aided a guy and ended up with an Stg and ... 3 rounds or some equally useless amount of ammo.

C'mon BFC, either give us some ammo or stop the Stg from being picked up - it effectively removes a guy from the squad since all he can do is admire and polish the weapon.

+1

Note:

YES, the 7,92 mm kurz was scarce.

But being completely unaviable for resupplying is a bit too much methinks.

Cheers

Olf