MengJiaoRedux Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 I made a simple, small scenario wherein six Tiger Tanks and some support attack a British army infantry company which has 4 57mm AT guns (in June so only 2 APDS per gun) and some PIATs and some demolition charges. The company is hastily entrenched (sandbags and hedgehogs only) in a village in the bocage. So tanks spotting infantry and AT guns is going to be crucial. I made the weather light rain and this seems to have had the result that Tigers cannot spot infantry or AT guns in any kind of cover. The results went fairly historically I thought: one Tiger immobilized and then blown up by demolition, two immobilized and abandoned and three support Halftacks knocked out before the AI germans withdrew. The British company had 34 killed mostly by the one Tiger that penetrated the village and was ultimately blown up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Hmm. Now you mention it, I'd expect any kind of precipitation to differentially affect tanks and other enclosed AFVs (especially when buttoned up); I can't recall even seeing wipers on most vision blocks, and how you'd knock the drops off a tank gun sight, I'm not sure. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 ...how you'd knock the drops off a tank gun sight, I'm not sure. Aren't the gun sights recessed an inch or two into the mantlet? Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apocal Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Aren't the gun sights recessed an inch or two into the mantlet? Michael They are, for that reason and others. The bigger problem when you're talking rain is having them fog up though. In my experience*. *With vehicular optics in general, not German tank sights specifically. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Aren't the gun sights recessed an inch or two into the mantlet? Michael Nasty weather could still get into that sort of cavity. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MengJiaoRedux Posted January 18, 2013 Author Share Posted January 18, 2013 Hmm. Now you mention it, I'd expect any kind of precipitation to differentially affect tanks and other enclosed AFVs (especially when buttoned up); I can't recall even seeing wipers on most vision blocks, and how you'd knock the drops off a tank gun sight, I'm not sure. I was thinking the light rain would give infantry some advantages and work better than say, making the tank crews conscripts for example. The Tiger that got into the village and was immobilized was not abandoned by its crew and inflicted most of the losses that the defenders suffered before it was blown up by a demolition charge. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 I was thinking the light rain would give infantry some advantages and work better than say, making the tank crews conscripts for example. Yeah. It was good thinking that hadn't occurred to me before. I only wonder whether it actually does give advantages, or whether the disadvantages applied to both sides merely change a tipping point somewhere. Not that it matters, in isolation. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artofwar Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Wow, maybe now people won't be concerned so much about easy tank spotting infantry maybe weather does matter I know size does thats why I'm alone on Friday nights playing this awesome game. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 I remember someone testing spotting in fog not to long ago and determining that it only reduced the maximum range of spotting, not the quality. Perhaps rain is different? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 Vanir Ausf B, It should reduce maximum range, quality of spotting and acoustic signature. The first two are straightforward, but various combat accounts talk over and over about the muffling, sound distorting effects of fog. Here's a great movie clip of a ZIS-3 confronting tanks and infantry appearing out of the fog and really close. Having been out in cold winter fog and rain myself in an M48A5 Hughes borrowed from the Guard for seeker tests, I can tell you it's hard to see anything--even with the AN/TAS-4 TOW FLIR looking for me in our borrowed tank going the other way! "Where are you? We can't see you" were the laments over the handheld radio. Sample size of one, granted, but it does give a little ground truth to the various military accounts. Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulverisor64 Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 Vanir Ausf B, It should reduce maximum range, quality of spotting and acoustic signature. The first two are straightforward, but various combat accounts talk over and over about the muffling, sound distorting effects of fog. Here's a great movie clip of a ZIS-3 confronting tanks and infantry appearing out of the fog and really close. Having been out in cold winter fog and rain myself in an M48A5 Hughes borrowed from the Guard for seeker tests, I can tell you it's hard to see anything--even with the AN/TAS-4 TOW FLIR looking for me in our borrowed tank going the other way! "Where are you? We can't see you" were the laments over the handheld radio. Sample size of one, granted, but it does give a little ground truth to the various military accounts. Regards, John Kettler Great clip John. Didn't expect the ending. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humbug Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 Anyone know what movie that clip is from? There's a lot of people asking this in the comments but I don't see any answers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agusto Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Anyone know what movie that clip is from? There's a lot of people asking this in the comments but I don't see any answers. According to the comments, its "Burnt by the Sun 2 - Exodus"* by Nikita Mikhalkov. I googled for a trailer to confirm this and found this one: Between 1:35 and 1:44 you see 3 scenes that could be from the movie Kettler posted. But better double check before you buy a DVD, i dont guarantee for this info beeing correct. *http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burnt_by_the_Sun_2 EDIT: I just took a closer look at Kettlers clip and the trailer i found. Its definately "Burnt by the Sun 2". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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