Good job TacAI!! (minor spoilers!)

[WriterJWA]

So my company has reached the top of Hill 1209 on the way to Troina. All I need to do now is mop up one slope. I have a .50 cal halftrack and a 75mm halftrack available to me along with the rattled remains of three rifle platoons. Each squad still exists, along with their platoon leaders, but it's been a rough fight.

Just below the crest of the hill, on the German-held slope, I see a German AT gun crew physically moving the AT gun to face my 75mm, which is essentially behind them. Seeing the opportunity to knock out the gun while it's limbered, I rush a squad and the .50 cal halftrack forward.

Next turn:

The .50 cal goes to work on the gun and pins them at around 40-50 meters. I call forward my nearby 75mm halftrack to put a shot into the gun at less than 100 meters. While pinned, however, the crew managed to unlimber the gun. Once unlimbered, the driver of the .50 cal halftrack decides, "hell, I better back up, that gun might get me."

He backs the truck up, taking the .50 cal gunner out of line of site. The AT gun crew unpins. They turn the barrel. They put two rounds into the 75mm halftrack before it gets one shot off.

1. How could the gun have been unlimbered if pinned by a FIFTY CAL at that range without the gun being de-crewed by death?

2. Why would it STOP SHOOTING the suppression fire if the .50 cal track knows it's pinning down the gun crew for a supporting arm?

3. WTF?

[theFightingSeabee]

It's possible that the .50 needed a reload or was jammed. I don't think the TacAI is able to limber/unlimber a gun. The gun must have been already set up and they were just turning it. Maybe the gunner was able to crawl under cover and pull the trigger. Once the first shot hit home, they all jump up to load and fire the second shot.

One of my biggest issues with the TacAI is when they get scared and move from cover out into the open, where they quickly die. Just stay in the flippin' foxhole, guys!

[ChrisND]

2. Why would it STOP SHOOTING the suppression fire if the .50 cal track knows it's pinning down the gun crew for a supporting arm?

I think you're projecting assumptions of human intelligence here. What makes you think the .50 cal halftrack AI contextually knows that? I don't think an AI exists in the world that could know that without heavy scripting and pre-set situations.

[ZPB II]

It's a game and games are never perfect. The sooner one accepts this fact, the closer he is to Zen.

Pixeltruppen aren't exactly psychic either, we can't automatically assume that the crew of a halftrack knows what the crew of another halftrack is planning to do.

I'm sort of happy that the little guys do irrational stuff somewhat routinely. I would guess rational thought is a scarce commodity on a battlefield. It's hard enough to think straight during a fistfight, let alone a firefight.

[c3k]

Sigh. The driver and the gunner have been going at each other since basic training. The driver is convinced that the gunner will let them all down in a pinch. That feeling was strengthened during a bar brawl against some RAF lads in pub just before the invasion. After the fight, the gunner was found to have fled before the first punch. As for him, the gunner has been furious with the driver ever since the driver ended up with the lass upon whom the gunner had set his sights. The sounds that came from the the pair of them from driver's bunk that night did nothing to settle the barracks.

That's their history.

In this particular firefight, the gunner was screaming at the driver to pull slightly forward so he could get a better LOS. The driver, deafened by the .50, did nothing. In frustration, the gunner threw some hot brass at the driver. One of the cartridges went down his shirt. In pain and surprised, the driver thought a hidden gun was penetrating the halftrack with impacts. He did as he had been trained: he reversed out of danger.

Now, all that should've been blindingly obvious to you. I admit, when I was new to the game, I, too, frequently glossed over the personnel files before I started a new battle.

Ken

[sburke]

I suspect all this is probably driving you nuts eh WriterJWA?

The individual state of your pixeltruppen varies. As far as I can tell the status window on suppression is a generalization. It won't tell you how an overall team is going to react. In Hamel Vallee I posted on one scene where an American MG team pops up right on the other side of this hederow that a very exhausted German team is hiding behind after having driven off a Sherman with only a rifle grenade. The MG team shoots one of my guys and the team leader promptly throws his hands in the air...and the last guy proceeds to toss 2 grenades wiping out the MG team.

This is one of the aspects of 1:1 modelling that doesn't get near the attention I think it should. It isn't just about creating a neater graphic. It also is a game changer. You can't assume that the status of an enemy team is uniform, you never know when that Audie Murphy guy is suddenly gonna rip your team apart.

In the case of your units it is hard to say why the events transpired the way they did. Perhaps the driver was too freaked at the proximity of the AT gun. Doesn't much matter what the rest of the team feels if he throws it in reverse and he certainly isn't caring about the impact on some other halftrack. Vehicles do not like to hang around AT weapons period. If it isn't dead fast they are going to try to evade.

And Ken you weren't supposed to tell him about the existence of the personnel files.. sheesh. (pretty damn funny)

[theFightingSeabee]

Sigh. The driver and the gunner have been going at each other since basic training.

The driver really is a jerk. And the gunner, well let's just say he's a little on the weird side. The sarge should have had them both peeling potatoes in the rear.

[Chek]

Sigh. The driver and the gunner have been going at each other since basic training. The driver is convinced that the gunner will let them all down in a pinch. That feeling was strengthened during a bar brawl against some RAF lads in pub just before the invasion. After the fight, the gunner was found to have fled before the first punch. As for him, the gunner has been furious with the driver ever since the driver ended up with the lass upon whom the gunner had set his sights. The sounds that came from the the pair of them from driver's bunk that night did nothing to settle the barracks.

That's their history.

In this particular firefight, the gunner was screaming at the driver to pull slightly forward so he could get a better LOS. The driver, deafened by the .50, did nothing. In frustration, the gunner threw some hot brass at the driver. One of the cartridges went down his shirt. In pain and surprised, the driver thought a hidden gun was penetrating the halftrack with impacts. He did as he had been trained: he reversed out of danger.

Now, all that should've been blindingly obvious to you. I admit, when I was new to the game, I, too, frequently glossed over the personnel files before I started a new battle.

Ken

Damn that's some impressive programming and my computer hardly lags at all !

[Dadekster88]

I gotta admit reading this particular thread gave me a pretty good chuckle. It's also imho pretty spot on from both sides. It is annoying when the troops you command don't do exactly what you think they should or were ordered to do. On the flip side no commander on this planet EVER has had troops so under their control that they did every single thing they were ordered to do to the letter. They'd have to be something like Cylons or Terminators for that effect. Ok, scratch Terminator....even he got all full of drama and went against programming iirc.

[A Canadian Cat]

I gotta admit reading this particular thread gave me a pretty good chuckle. It's also imho pretty spot on from both sides. It is annoying when the troops you command don't do exactly what you think they should or were ordered to do. On the flip side no commander on this planet EVER has had troops so under their control that they did every single thing they were ordered to do to the letter. They'd have to be something like Cylons or Terminators for that effect. Ok, scratch Terminator....even he got all full of drama and went against programming iirc.

+1 to that. And if you watch closely there are plenty of times when not following your orders are precisely the *right* thing for your troops to have done. I have seen guys that were ordered to cross the street in a relatively safe (or so I thought) part of the battle field come under fire from a previously unknown enemy and turn around and head back to cover. If they had followed my orders precisely they would all be dead. We often forget to remember those moments when something bad like the OP reported happens.

[Fernando]

Think you are the guy in the HT. Remember, it is NOT a game, but real war. If you lose then it is "game over" for you. You can't reload the save and start the turn again. Moreover, you may lose in a terrible way, burnt alive, decapitated or gutted.

Then you receive the order to move towards the gun and fire your MG on the damn Jerries. There are five or six Germans there, you don't know if you will be able to pin or kill/wound all of them. In fact you don't know if all Germans are just there. Perhaps one or more of them are out of sight. It is obvious that they are unhooking the gun and deploying it. If they can do it and it happens the gun is already loaded with an AT shell, then just one man can turn your galant dash into the last one. Then you see in horror that some Germans scatter for cover but a pair of them managed to finish the unhooking task and the guns seems almost deployed. It doesn't matter if it is deployed or loaded. It might be. That's enought. Moreover, perhaps one or more of the scattered germans has a MP40 or just his rifle and may decide at the worst moment to fire on you. AT YOU. Not pixeltruppen, but YOU!!!!

You are alone, exposed, handling you .50 cal, your torso and head is NOT protected by armor, the gun is deployed and it needs just a German to fire it. At 40 or 50 meters!!!! That's point blank. There are four or five Germans ready to kill you. You must kill them all, but they just need a lone bullet in the right place of your body.

Remember. If you lose, then it is GAME OVER. Next thing is a grave for you. Or a hole for your burned-out remains. A Purple Heart for your parents. Bye, bye girls, parties, family, mother. Bye, bye LIFE!!! Perhaps that place will be known as the "Dead Man's C orner" (the one who was burned alive in his HT, 11 months before Normandy) in your honor, but you won't notice it because you will be DEAD.

What you decide? How many of us would have the guts to stand there and risk everything, your life included?

You are not Audie Murphy so you order your driver: -Get out of here!!!!!! GET OUT!!!!!! NOW!!!!!!!! If they fire the gun we are TOAST!!!!!!!!

[A Canadian Cat]

<ship>Remember. If you lose, then it is GAME OVER. Next thing is a grave for you. Or a hole for your burned-out remains. A Purple Heart for your parents. Bye, bye girls, parties, family, mother. Bye, bye LIFE!!! <snip>

When you put it like that is a wonder that any of these pixeltroops follow any of our orders.

Well said.

[MG TOW]

Right or wrong, most times this behaviour can be overridden by jumping on the cancel order command as soon as the HT starts backing up and countering the retreat with a move order, and a target order. i've grown accustomed to this. Yes HT back away from any tank or AT gun once spotted.