Italians: First impressions

[Russkly]

Thx, Cool Breeze.

I'll need to try it again.

SPOILERS:

I found clearing the wooded hill sections OK, but as soon as I got anywhere near the tree line, I got hammered by the US fire power.

I couldn't get the Italians' main weapon, the mortars, into play, because, without radio, they needed to be in line of sight or within shouting distance of an officer or the FO. When I tried to move them or the officers/FO into LOS/F positions on the hillsides, the US forces spotted them immediately and neutralised them.

Without being able to use the mortars to take out the ATGs, it was game over over for the Italian 'armour' when it arrived. I tried rushing in, finding a decent overwatch position, etc., but the US forces' spotting ability into the tree-line kept me pinned back.

All the approach routes are uncovered (at least as far as I could find), so I am really stumped as to how one can win this battle as the Italians. The US fire power in the farm is simply too much for the uncovered approaches. And then the GMCs arrive - buona notte!

BTW I played it as the US for experimentation purposes and won easily.

All this is on elite, but lower levels don't actually change the AI IIRC; it affects unit identification only (as far as I can tell, and yes, I have read the manual, but have perhaps forgotten something!).

Any guidance would be really helpful...

R

[slysniper]

Thx, Cool Breeze.

I'll need to try it again.

SPOILERS:

I found clearing the wooded hill sections OK, but as soon as I got anywhere near the tree line, I got hammered by the US fire power.

I couldn't get the Italians' main weapon, the mortars, into play, because, without radio, they needed to be in line of sight or within shouting distance of an officer or the FO. When I tried to move them or the officers/FO into LOS/F positions on the hillsides, the US forces spotted them immediately and neutralised them.

Without being able to use the mortars to take out the ATGs, it was game over over for the Italian 'armour' when it arrived. I tried rushing in, finding a decent overwatch position, etc., but the US forces' spotting ability into the tree-line kept me pinned back.

All the approach routes are uncovered (at least as far as I could find), so I am really stumped as to how one can win this battle as the Italians. The US fire power in the farm is simply too much for the uncovered approaches. And then the GMCs arrive - buona notte!

BTW I played it as the US for experimentation purposes and won easily.

All this is on elite, but lower levels don't actually change the AI IIRC; it affects unit identification only (as far as I can tell, and yes, I have read the manual, but have perhaps forgotten something!).

Any guidance would be really helpful...

R

SPOILERS:

On the left flank I had infantry units clear the house in the woods, then moved them to the lower right end of the woods back near my starting area. I only try to position them where they see a small portion of the village. In that way only the enemy that can see you can be a part of the fire fight. Do not expose yourself to the whole enemy area and you will find that you do much better in fire fights by chipping away at their edges.

In the center I sent most of the infantry up the stream, but stayed behind the first bridge until late in the game because there was no way to take on the american fire power. The mortars in that group crawled up to locations on the open side hill behind the wall, they stayed hidden there until I had units that spotted the AT guns. I used them from locations there to take out the AT gun that was facing my position. I also sent some infantry to help the fighting I thought would be needed on the right flank woods.

On the right flank. I also moved infantry to the back portion of the woods where the roadway enters there. I did not want any suprises firing down on me from that location. But what happened was, this became the key area to my offense.

Again from here I had a nice overview of only the front portion of the village. This really became the area of my main base of fire. At some point I discovered a second AT gun in town behind some bldgs. I moved a mortar a little forward to this general area to place arty on it, plus at a angle where the gun could not return fire.

Additional infantry cleared the house in the woods on the right flank along with some reinf, that came. After that was done most of that group moved up to the ridge line overlooking the whole area in the valley. But immediately was getting shot up. So I pulled them back from the ridge, then pushed them up in the woods towards the enemy rear to make sure the woods were clear.

This allowed me to use my weak armor in two ways. first I sent a few tanks with that infantry I pushed forward on the right side. Late in the battle I rolled them out of the woods to the enemy rear and flanks when they were engaging my main forces.

The rest of the tanks that came in on the right flank went back to the location where the road enters the woods from my side of the board. They added support fire to help clear the enemy infantry behind the first bridge, then shifted and were used on the front bldgs in the villiage.

The main armor that came in the center did not do much until I had cleared the first bridge area. At which point I pulled them up to a area just right of the bridge where they started to also area fire on bldgs in town.

When the allies had reinfocement appear, it was my right flanking units that gave me the advantage.

The thing was, I had no real battle plan in the one. It seemed pretty straight forward and I figured it be a challenge to clear the town.

So I played with what the enemy gave me. I did not try to take on what I could not win.

My worst mishap was I lost 2 or 3 tanks to at the road intersection on my right flank that was the key base fire location. The first was lost to the second AT gun, that is how I found out that there was a gun there.

I lost a second one after I started mortaring that location, I pulled the tank out to help area fire on that gun figuring I had it pinned. But after two shots, some AT gunner managed to have the courage to fire again and I lost a second tank to that same gun.

The only reason I had tanks in the woods late in the game ready to flank was because I was afraid to pull them out in fear the Machine guns on the halftracks would make swiss cheese of them. So I left the halftracks to my center tank force, because they could engage them at the greatest distance.

Only when I saw the juicy reinf come that I sure did not want them getting their large guns into action did I decide to rush down the hill side and see if I could get them from behind.

When it, really comes down to it, looking at many of my battles. It comes down to having a feel for what to do more than it comes down to black and white tactics from a book. There is things that can be taught, but there is also things that come from just practicing it and getting a feel for what is needed.

[cool breeze]

Any tips on the 3rd mission on the Italian campaign? The bypass one? I just got a draw so it booted me to the final battle I lost about 80 guys during my semi smoke covered dash down the road. I killed and wounded about twice as many and I got almost all of my movable guys off the map so I thought my attack would continue but no

[cool breeze]

WOOT! Just squeaked by with a minor victory, still lost about 90 men killed and wounded but this time I kept my cannons and managed to continue the attack!!! But still if anybody whomped this one id be happy to hear about it. Edit to add, I just redid it from my last save 18 minutes from the end, unfortunately a save from right after I lost a whole assault unit truck. This time I deployed a little of my infantry in the trouble area and was able to keep losses low from there.

[slysniper]

Any tips on the 3rd mission on the Italian campaign? The bypass one? I just got a draw so it booted me to the final battle I lost about 80 guys during my semi smoke covered dash down the road. I killed and wounded about twice as many and I got almost all of my movable guys off the map so I thought my attack would continue but no

Not from me, anyway. I have played a couple of scenario's to get the feel for the Italion forces. then I was going to try the campaigns next. Between that and the HtoH games I have going it will be a long while before I get to that.

I really dont have tons of time to play the game, most of these post come while I am at work, Bored, waiting for some work flow to hit my computer.

[JonS]

WOOT! Just squeaked by with a minor victory

Almost at the coast now!

[cool breeze]

Yeah it was really nice finally seeing the ocean but it still looks so far away. I haven't started it yet, the briefing made it seem a bit hopeless, I think I leaned a bit to heavy on my armor, I only have two AFV's left and it seems my 300 something infantry will be outnumbered and outgunned. Big urban battles are normally hard enough for me to start but this one is gonna be super hard, luckily I have tons of motivation cause I wanna drive to the ocean and win and I'm also curious to see what its like fighting against naval support. I'm guessing I'll lose this one and have to try the 3rd again from the beginning with a more combined arms approach to keep more AFVs alive. This campaign seems to be one that had little chance of success in real life. I like it.

[ridethe415]

Any tips on the 3rd mission on the Italian campaign? The bypass one? I just got a draw so it booted me to the final battle I lost about 80 guys during my semi smoke covered dash down the road. I killed and wounded about twice as many and I got almost all of my movable guys off the map so I thought my attack would continue but no

I was somewhat confused after the battle.

1. The briefing stated to bypass the US forces and "let them wither and die." So I tried my best to bypass them and exit the troops only to find at the AAR that:

2. I failed because I did not destroy enough US troops?

It's either get'em off or destroy the enemy, I don't see how both can be done in the time allowed.

I may revisit this one, now the 4th and last battle is somewhat anti-climatic...

[cool breeze]

I didn't want to even start the fighting withdraw battle you get with a draw on the 3rd battle. I just wanted to do better on the 3rd so I could continue the attack branch, allowing up to 5 missions total. If you try the 3rd again and manage a minor victory or better then the 4th battle will be the fight to the bay. I managed to get my win the bypass way but it would have been a lot better if I had somehow used my infantry more while losing similar or less infantry as my crazy highway drive got me but conserved my Italian vehicles more. I lost 9000+ ammo in the nine trucks I lost during the staging and drive, I wish I had shot those bullets and saved my tanks with them. I got my minor victory with most of their force still being alive so you don't have to destroy them you just need to exit enough while still doing considerable damage.

[Steiner14]

Where have the times gone, when civilized people posted SPOILER ALERTS before they were talking about scenarios or campaigns? :mad:

[cool breeze]

Sorry Steiner14, my bad. It must have slipped cause I didn't see it as much of a spoiler, but I should have been more careful. I did put a spoiler alert for my earlier post that had more spoilery details.

[LongLeftFlank]

Ah, just back from Tuscany after much feasting on gelati and vini! I got the sense that the locals don't worry much about the Euro or immigration or much else; so long as Visigoths or condottieri aren't actively marauding their lands, they've got everything they need for a good life close at hand.

On the squad splitting, I haven't gotten CMFI yet and am on the fence about it, but is there any way to allow Italian (half)squads to split a 2 rifleman SCOUT team to carry out various recon, flank guard, medic, etc. purposes? That would remove a lot of the awkward micro of exposing 12 men at a time when all you want to do is peek over a hill, or (defensively) set a picket to cover a blind area in your trench line.

I mean, doctrine or not, sending a couple of guys ahead when you don't know what's out there is about as basic and commonsense a tactic as you get in war.

[Childress]

On the squad splitting, I haven't gotten CMFI yet and am on the fence about it, but is there any way to allow Italian (half)squads to split a 2 rifleman SCOUT team to carry out various recon, flank guard, medic, etc. purposes?

No, there isn't. However many of the scenarios. e.g. 'Lemon Hill', add Italian Scout units including 3 man teams. The teams carry binocs so they're more useful than detaching two man ad hoc groups. Dunno about QBs.

[ZPB II]

I don't remember what Italian formation included this and that, but a lot of the companies I've bought in QBs have included some kind of recon platoon. They're always the ones who get shot first in my games.

Some recon teams are, uh, 6-man and the typical one is 3-man. I think. Would need to doublecheck to be sure.

There's also the infamous "Replacement Platoon" in some companies. I haven't found out their specific purpose yet but their name has led me to use them as a forlorn hope detachment.

[slysniper]

Ah, just back from Tuscany after much feasting on gelati and vini! I got the sense that the locals don't worry much about the Euro or immigration or much else; so long as Visigoths or condottieri aren't actively marauding their lands, they've got everything they need for a good life close at hand.

On the squad splitting, I haven't gotten CMFI yet and am on the fence about it, but is there any way to allow Italian (half)squads to split a 2 rifleman SCOUT team to carry out various recon, flank guard, medic, etc. purposes? That would remove a lot of the awkward micro of exposing 12 men at a time when all you want to do is peek over a hill, or (defensively) set a picket to cover a blind area in your trench line.

I mean, doctrine or not, sending a couple of guys ahead when you don't know what's out there is about as basic and commonsense a tactic as you get in war.

since the units do not allow you split them, some of the formations come with scout units already split. So they are there, it just depends on having the units that have that scout unit. My first battle was troops that did not have scouts, but I am playing one now that does. they are 3men scout teams