womble Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 In an ongoing campaign, I've got a brace of 250/1 halftracks with just drivers and no recon teams to transport. They're from the same Aufsklarung platoon. One of them is carrying a platoon HQ from a PzGrn battalion, and the other is carrying a platoon HQ from a truck battalion. The one with the PzGrn HQ is behaving as I'd expect (the vehicle has targetting commands available to it and will fire its weapon; the mounted team can also fire). The one with the support echelon HQ can't fire, even though the HQ's unit information pane is showing one of the troopers is on the MG42. There's ammo, but it's greyed out, like the MG isn't loaded. At one point I gave it a fire command which drew the red line, but now Target isn't available, only Face. Also, the riders can't fire out of the vehicle. Their targetting commands are unavailable. Am I seeing a jam? Is there another reason the REMFs might not be able to operate the halfie's weapon? Neither of the riders are from the same Btn the tracks are from. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 In an ongoing campaign, I've got a brace of 250/1 halftracks with just drivers and no recon teams to transport. They're from the same Aufsklarung platoon. One of them is carrying a platoon HQ from a PzGrn battalion, and the other is carrying a platoon HQ from a truck battalion. The one with the PzGrn HQ is behaving as I'd expect (the vehicle has targetting commands available to it and will fire its weapon; the mounted team can also fire). The one with the support echelon HQ can't fire, even though the HQ's unit information pane is showing one of the troopers is on the MG42. There's ammo, but it's greyed out, like the MG isn't loaded. At one point I gave it a fire command which drew the red line, but now Target isn't available, only Face. Also, the riders can't fire out of the vehicle. Their targetting commands are unavailable. Am I seeing a jam? Is there another reason the REMFs might not be able to operate the halfie's weapon? Neither of the riders are from the same Btn the tracks are from. How long has the ammo been greyed out and the MG been inoperable? If it's only been this way for a few seconds, it may well just be that there's an ammo belt change in process -- CM does model ammo belt changes for certain MGs, and this takes a few seconds. I haven't personally noticed whether this this happens for the MG on German halftracks, but I see it happen all the time on the pintle-mount .50 MG on Sherman tanks (for example) -- every so often the TC will stop firing the MG for a little bit, then he'll start up again with a new belt a little later. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted May 30, 2012 Author Share Posted May 30, 2012 How long has the ammo been greyed out and the MG been inoperable? If it's only been this way for a few seconds, it may well just be that there's an ammo belt change in process -- CM does model ammo belt changes for certain MGs, and this takes a few seconds. I haven't personally noticed whether this this happens for the MG on German halftracks, but I see it happen all the time on the pintle-mount .50 MG on Sherman tanks (for example) -- every so often the TC will stop firing the MG for a little bit, then he'll start up again with a new belt a little later. It's been 3-4 minutes since I noticed that they weren't firing (for a whole minute's replay; might've not been firing for a minute or two before I noticed), cancelled the order and discovered I couldn't persuade them to fire again. I'm finding it odd that the passengers can't fire their smallarms out of their compartment and will dismount them and remount them soon, to see if that helps with anything. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 OK, yeah -- that's way longer than the belt reload sequence. If the MG is not damaged and has ammo, I have no idea what the problem is. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted May 30, 2012 Author Share Posted May 30, 2012 Quitting and reloading the game, and dis- and re-mounting the passengers hasn't cured it either. The gun is undamaged and everyone's morale state is tickety-boo; there's no incoming fire, and no enemy fire going on at all. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holman Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 I don't know if this is it, but I've seen cases where vehicle passengers showed only their own small arms until they spotted an enemy, at which point one of them took over the mounted MG. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted May 30, 2012 Author Share Posted May 30, 2012 I don't know if this is it, but I've seen cases where vehicle passengers showed only their own small arms until they spotted an enemy, at which point one of them took over the mounted MG. That's not quite the same, since these guys don't seem to be tall enough to shoot over the sides of their ride... or something. I'll keep trying with them and see whether they get their game on when they spot an enemy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boo Radley Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 That's not quite the same, since these guys don't seem to be tall enough to shoot over the sides of their ride... Did you inadvertently pick up some Hobbit passengers? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted May 30, 2012 Author Share Posted May 30, 2012 Did you inadvertently pick up some Hobbit passengers? Possibly. I heard there were some renegade Shirefolk driving wagons for the Dark Lord in the War of the Ring... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Hi Womble, have you tried swapping the passengers between the two vehicles? If one unit can fire the MG in both halftracks, and the other unit can't fire in either, that would be ... interesting. Alternately if either can fire from in one halftrack but neither from the other that would indicate ... something? Regards Jon 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boo Radley Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 That they're pacifist Hobbits. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted May 31, 2012 Author Share Posted May 31, 2012 Hi Womble, have you tried swapping the passengers between the two vehicles? If one unit can fire the MG in both halftracks, and the other unit can't fire in either, that would be ... interesting. Alternately if either can fire from in one halftrack but neither from the other that would indicate ... something? Regards Jon A good suggestion that I will act upon when the two vehicles in question are near one another again. That they're pacifist Hobbits. Or that putting them in a different halftrack doesn't make them any taller, at least... They're not pacifists, since they can fire their personal weapons when dismounted. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
costard Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 How's your Button/Open Up tab showing? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted May 31, 2012 Author Share Posted May 31, 2012 How's your Button/Open Up tab showing? Showing as "Open Up" selected. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuka Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 That they're pacifist Hobbits. from Ohio. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave85 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Its prolly cause they are REMF's and have never been shown how to fire a weapon. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted May 31, 2012 Author Share Posted May 31, 2012 Its prolly cause they are REMF's and have never been shown how to fire a weapon. They know how to use their Kar98s and MP40, cos they will when outside their armoured transport. I think it's more that they're REMFs and don't want to expose their tender hides any more than necessary. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted June 2, 2012 Author Share Posted June 2, 2012 I've noticed that the 7.92mm ammo in the 250 in question is also greyed out. There are a couple of other half tracks which have some of their 7.92AP greyed out, but they have other lines in their unit display for 7.92 which aren't grey. So that's why the halfie's MG42 won't fire. Which leaves "what's the grey ammo?" and "why can't the passengers fire their small arms out of the open-topped vehicle?" to be answered. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinnart Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 Sounds strange to me too. The only conclusions I can come to from reading the thread is that somewhere along the campaign the MG42 must have got damaged, or ammo shortage problems as that was described as grayed out too. Not sure also if it is possible for a single unit to develop a bug in getting corrupted somehow along the way of a continued campaign. In regard to halftracks, and gunners in general I do notice sometimes they come with their own gunners while sometimes they do not. I would prefer if they all came with own gunners all the time. It would cut the steps one must take at times to man HT’s with no gunners. Many times one must dismount the squad, then separate a scout team, and then re-mount them in the HT. Having it’s own gunner to start with would streamline this avoiding unnecessary micro management, and would perhaps avoid oddity’s as womble is experiencing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted June 2, 2012 Author Share Posted June 2, 2012 Having it’s own gunner to start with would streamline this avoiding unnecessary micro management, and would perhaps avoid oddity’s as womble is experiencing. It'd certainly clear things up for 1-off games, but gunners in tracks die pretty often, if you put the track in a situation where the gunner's any use, so in campaigns you'd still have to manage the gunner replacements. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 In regard to halftracks, and gunners in general I do notice sometimes they come with their own gunners while sometimes they do not. I would prefer if they all came with own gunners all the time. It would cut the steps one must take at times to man HT’s with no gunners. Many times one must dismount the squad, then separate a scout team, and then re-mount them in the HT. Having it’s own gunner to start with would streamline this avoiding unnecessary micro management, and would perhaps avoid oddity’s as womble is experiencing. The problem with that is you've then permanently reduced the size of the dismounted squad. That, in turn, would mess with all sorts of things, including QB force picks. Doctrinally, halftracks shouldn't really be getting in harm's way - they're a mode of getting /too/ the battle, not really a fighting vehicle. Panzer Lehr, for example, sent almost all of the halftracks in its PzGren bns back to Le Mans(?) after a few days in Normandy, because they realised that they'd be no use in that sort of fighting. Edit to add: we all know that they get grossly misused and abused in CM all the time, but that's our problem - as players - to deal with, rather than BFCs. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted June 2, 2012 Author Share Posted June 2, 2012 Doctrinally, halftracks shouldn't really be getting in harm's way - they're a mode of getting /too/ the battle, not really a fighting vehicle. Panzer Lehr, for example, sent almost all of the halftracks in its PzGren bns back to Le Mans(?) after a few days in Normandy, because they realised that they'd be no use in that sort of fighting. Edit to add: we all know that they get grossly misused and abused in CM all the time, but that's our problem - as players - to deal with, rather than BFCs. While you're quite right that doctrinally, an APC is a Carrier for Personnel with some Armour, I find that things like Hanomags are, in the CMBN environment, rather closer to IFVs, if you handle them right. In an hedgerow fight, for example, they're pretty useful to thicken the suppression mix once you've got the lead broom started, and even (in the absence of ATGs) possibly the best element to open up the "wanna shoot back" phase of the exchange (they sacrifice some hedgerow protection for basic smallarms invulnerability and at the risk of drawing any ATR fire that's available). Obviously my CMx2 experience diverges from real life, and I wonder what the subtle difference is that CM doesn't reflect. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 Obviously my CMx2 experience diverges from real life, and I wonder what the subtle difference is that CM doesn't reflect. Tomorrow. . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted June 3, 2012 Author Share Posted June 3, 2012 Tomorrow. . You tease 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 No, that's the answer; CM doesn't model tomorrow. No cares, no regrets, no having to worry about what happens next. That, all on its own, leads to a whole raft of aberrant behavior by players. BFC have gone some way towards moderating some of it, and will doubtless do more in the future, but as it stands, and probably for ever, the biggest obstacle to realistic play is the players. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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