Passengers not stepping up to operate halftrack MG

[womble]

No, that's the answer; CM doesn't model tomorrow. No cares, no regrets, no having to worry about what happens next. That, all on its own, leads to a whole raft of aberrant behavior by players. BFC have gone some way towards moderating some of it, and will doubtless do more in the future, but as it stands, and probably for ever, the biggest obstacle to realistic play is the players.

Ah, I get what you mean, but I think you're neglecting campaign play. I'm running through an un-resupplied German campaign (Panzers Marsch) and using halfies as combat vehicles is sufficiently survivable that I don't feel inhibited about using them with care. My rifle platoons still have their full complement of rides 5 missions in (the recon tracks are a bit thinner on the ground, but they lasted longer than their passengers, or the armoured cars...). I'm very aware of having to preserve my forces for the next fight, and there have been some largish distances to cover in short timescales, so preserving my lift capacity is also important.

[JonS]

Yep; campaigns are one of the things that moderates it, somewhat. But even so it's still there to a degree. Probably - IMHO - a reasonable chunk of that moderation in campaigns is due to playing the AI. I think in a H2H campaign you'd get much harder collisions between the two sides than you do against the AI, and the whole thing would snowball to a decisive victory within relatively few battles. That's certainly the way I play, anyway Even in the meta campaigns you tend to see the same thing - people play fairly conservatively for the first couple of campaign days and battles, but as the campaign end approaches the stops tend to be removed and the collisions between forces become more annihilatory.

Oh, another issue is the edge of the world. I've been doing a bit of background reading on a particular scenario/battle that piqued my interest while playing it PBEM. It turns out that my casualties, which I though rather horrific, weren't actually all that far off those in the actual battle. Overall. But one thing I didn't have to worry about in my PBEM, which the real guys did in 1944, was some devastating long range fire coming in from both flanks. I managed to complete the PBEM with all my light and soft vehicles intact, even though I'd had them racing around madly between my back edge and the battle, moving reinforcements, carting away unhorsed crews, shifting ammunition, and a range of other tasks. If those vehicles had had to face fire from the flanks they'd have soon be doing Guy Fawkes impressions.

[Vinnart]

The problem with that is you've then permanently reduced the size of the dismounted squad. That, in turn, would mess with all sorts of things, including QB force pic

For QB I usually shape my infantry section around armored infantry then modify to my liking usually adding teams to reinforce. Their half tracks always come with the gunner so you do not weaken the squad at least from the start to have manned MG’s. You are right in that it is a trade off. Having a useless un-mounted 50cal. or MG42 and a stronger squad, or mounting the MG, and having that firepower. Taking drivers from some to man guns is another way to preserve the full squad strength and at least get a few MG’s up. In cases where there is no gunner to start I usually decide to go either way to man the guns or not depending on terrain. Tight boccage maps are not good for them, but more open terrain with range is. I think the key to using them successfully is to use their strength of the long range of the MG. I have had success with them for suppressing with decent survivability if you do not get too aggressive with them, and keep them back as far as you can. I try to keep them out of rifle range, and in cover. They are good as “second engagers” too popping out from cover to fire on an enemy that is already engaged with another friendly unit.

[Vinnart]

Ah, I get what you mean, but I think you're neglecting campaign play. I'm running through an un-resupplied German campaign (Panzers Marsch) and using halfies as combat vehicles is sufficiently survivable that I don't feel inhibited about using them with care.

I’m playing Panzers Marsch right now too. It is my 1st campaign since getting the game, am doing well, and enjoying it. I’m on the 3rd mission, and here I have lost so far 1armored car, and 3 recon half tracks in the entire campaign. I got caught totally by surprise and over run by the counter attack on the right patch of woods next to the bridge. Then I started seeing Shermans, and a “OH SHT!” moment having nothing to take em out until thank God the big cats showed up next turn. I’m glad I decided to go through all the single battles and some PBEM QB’s to get some training before campaigning, or I doubt it would be going as well. Get this one though. My fist casualties of the campaign were from my own 150mm arty with some crazy shrapnel dropped in another boccage square at least 300m away. Thought for sure I was not danger close.

[Broadsword56]

But one thing I didn't have to worry about in my PBEM, which the real guys did in 1944, was some devastating long range fire coming in from both flanks.

Not a perfect solution, but just a work-around: Plant a lot of mines on the flanks of your map. Those will simulate fire from off map.

[Broadsword56]

But one thing I didn't have to worry about in my PBEM, which the real guys did in 1944, was some devastating long range fire coming in from both flanks.

Not a perfect solution, but just a work-around: Plant a lot of mines on the flanks of your map. Those will simulate fire from off map.

[sburke]

Not a perfect solution, but just a work-around: Plant a lot of mines on the flanks of your map. Those will simulate fire from off map.

I don't think it is edge creep he is referring to. In my experience he didn't really come all that close to the map edge. I think what he is thinking of is more some interdicting fire that would actually have hit his units further back for example in Shadow if the Hill 8:30am (not sure if that is the PBEM he is referring to). As it was he could move units around back there completely unhindered. As could I for the most part on my side.

[Broadsword56]

But mines -- even if thickly placed in those other areas -- would interdict movement and explode a bit like HE shells, if one wanted to simulate that effect, wouldn't they?

[JonS]

I don't think it is edge creep he is referring to. In my experience he didn't really come all that close to the map edge. I think what he is thinking of is more some interdicting fire that would actually have hit his units further back for example in Shadow if the Hill 8:30am (not sure if that is the PBEM he is referring to). As it was he could move units around back there completely unhindered. As could I for the most part on my side.

Yep, correct on all counts.

Putting an crimp on edge creeping/hugging is definitely worthwhile, and designers occasionally do something in that direction in terms of impassible terrain (rivers, bocaged-off fields, etc), or by setting up the map so the battle is corner-to-corner rather than edge-to-edge. But what I was referring to was enemy fire from locations off the CM map that had the potential to sweep huge areas of the map, but for obvious reasons is completely absent in CM.

[JonS]

But mines -- even if thickly placed in those other areas -- would interdict movement and explode a bit like HE shells, if one wanted to simulate that effect, wouldn't they?

Yes, but in the particular case I'm thinking of you're talking about an area of something like a square kilometre

[Bulletpoint]

Was this bug ever fixed? I'm still having the problem of halftrack gunners refusing to fire, no target order available and the MG is greyed out. Even when I select "open up" and the gunner is shown actively manning the MG. Sometimes halftracks start the mission fine, able to do target orders, then later they lose the ability.

[MOS:96B2P]

4 hours ago, Bulletpoint said:

Was this bug ever fixed? I'm still having the problem of halftrack gunners refusing to fire, no target order available and the MG is greyed out. Even when I select "open up" and the gunner is shown actively manning the MG. Sometimes halftracks start the mission fine, able to do target orders, then later they lose the ability.

Is there ammo for the MG?  I think they are grayed out when re-loading / empty.

[Bulletpoint]

8 minutes ago, MOS:96B2P said:

Is there ammo for the MG?  I think they are grayed out when re-loading / empty.

Plenty of ammo, and it stays grey for the rest of the battle..

[Vanir Ausf B]

Post the save game file or email it to me.

[Bulletpoint]

1 hour ago, Vanir Ausf B said:

Post the save game file or email it to me.

Roger that, sending by email.

[Bulletpoint]

Just to wrap this up, Vanir has helped confirm and report the bug.