Why no specific K98 noise?

[phil stanbridge]

Was there any feedback reference this? Why was the specific gun sound for the K98 left out of Normandy? It doesn't make any sense to me.

[womble]

There isn't a specific MG42 sound, either, IIRC, just generic "Rifle" and "MG" sound files. There was some suggestion that it would be good to at least give the possibility for each weapon to use a different file, to allow modding, but at the moment, I don't think it's possible.

[akd]

There is a specific MG42 sound.

[phil stanbridge]

Well that's really weird. Why? They were in the old games.

[YankeeDog]

Well that's really weird. Why? They were in the old games.

I couldn't say for certain, but I suspect it has to do with the radically different way CMBN handles small arms sounds vs. CMx1.

In CMx1, small arms fire was abstracted to a few "bursts" of fire per infantry unit per 1-minute turn -- usually 5-7 for a unit firing for the full turn, but could be more or less depending on a variety of factors. For each "burst", the game would randomly pick a sound file to play based upon a set determined by the weapons present in the infantry unit. So, for a German squad equipped with an MG42, k98s, and an MP40, for any given "burst" of fire, you might hear an MG42 .wav file, a k98 .wav file, or an MP40 .wav file. But never more than one of these weapons at a time, and never more than one sound file played per "burst".

CMBN is totally different. Each trigger pull by each soldier in a unit gets its own corresponding sound file played. If a rifle team fires off 20 rounds in a turn, that's 20 individual plays of the rifle shot sound file. So it's probably something along the lines of a factor of magnitude more individual sound files being played in an CMBN one-minute turn, vs. a CMx1 turn.

Again, I don't have any special knowledge of what's going on "under the hood," but it may simply be that with this dramatic increase in the fidelity of how and when small arms sound files are played, it is simply not possible to have individual sound files for every type of small arms weapon in the game.

Again, all (somewhat informed) speculation on my part.

[LukeFF]

There is a specific MG42 sound.

I don't think so. It shares it with the MG34.

[LukeFF]

CMBN is totally different. Each trigger pull by each soldier in a unit gets its own corresponding sound file played. If a rifle team fires off 20 rounds in a turn, that's 20 individual plays of the rifle shot sound file. So it's probably something along the lines of a factor of magnitude more individual sound files being played in an CMBN one-minute turn, vs. a CMx1 turn.

Again, I don't have any special knowledge of what's going on "under the hood," but it may simply be that with this dramatic increase in the fidelity of how and when small arms sound files are played, it is simply not possible to have individual sound files for every type of small arms weapon in the game.

Again, all (somewhat informed) speculation on my part.

Part of what Steve said as well is that (in his opinion) the sound of a Garand is not all that different from a K98, hence the lack of need for a separate K98 sound. Of course, I disagree with that notion, since I know from personal experience the two rifles sound distinctly different.

I do hope a better implementation for the sounds can be found by the time the game returns to the Eastern Front, because otherwise the problem will pop up again. The SVT-40 sounds noticeably different than an M91/30, and the M38 & M44 are WAY louder than an M91/30 (an M38 or M44 firing is a great way to attract attention at a firing range ).

[Boche]

Mods are your friend!

[LukeFF]

Mods are your friend!

Not in this case.

[Mord]

The closest thing you can do, and it's not much of a work around is add the Kar98 sound you want to your z folder...it uses the "gun rifle" file. You can have multiple rifle sounds just start them at "0" and keep adding an extension for each new one "1", "2", etc. (if you only have one file do not add an extension, leave it as "gun rifle"). Granted it's gonna show up on both sides but it will at least give you some variety.

Right now I have three different rifle shot noises and multiple garand pings going on during fire fights. Sounds pretty cool.

Mord.

[akd]

I don't think so. It shares it with the MG34.

No, it has it's own: "gun mg42.wav", if I recall. MG34 uses "gun 7 lmg.wav". This does not apply to vehicle weapons.

[LukeFF]

No, it has it's own: "gun mg42.wav", if I recall. MG34 uses "gun 7 lmg.wav".

I'm not on my gaming computer at the moment, so I can't check, but I'm almost certain the "infantry" (i.e., not vehicle-mounted) MG34 uses the same sound as the "infantry" MG42.

[akd]

Luke, I know for sure. But they are similar sounds.

[LukeFF]

But they are similar sounds.

Ah, OK. Pardon my ignorance.

[Battlefront.com]

I can confirm it is a resource usage issue during runtime. Collectively sound effects have a significant impact on processing and RAM usage. Since an argument can be made that every weapon has it's own unique sound signature, one could argue for a unique sound for every single weapon. But it's simply not practical for us to do that.

The old CMx1 code is irrelevant since it used a completely different method for sound effects. Plus, at the end of CMx1 development the average computer out there was orders of magnitude better than what CMBO was programmed to run on. We had a lot more flexibility back then simply because the engine was so dated compared to what it was running on.

Steve

[phil stanbridge]

I can confirm it is a resource usage issue during runtime. Collectively sound effects have a significant impact on processing and RAM usage. Since an argument can be made that every weapon has it's own unique sound signature, one could argue for a unique sound for every single weapon. But it's simply not practical for us to do that.

The old CMx1 code is irrelevant since it used a completely different method for sound effects. Plus, at the end of CMx1 development the average computer out there was orders of magnitude better than what CMBO was programmed to run on. We had a lot more flexibility back then simply because the engine was so dated compared to what it was running on.

Steve

Ohhhh that's sad. I was rather hoping to see a K98 sound appear in the not to distant future. It's not a game killer granted but it was rather nice.

So out of interest, how will this effect the other modules too? Will the Lee Enfield sound like a Garand for example?

[LukeFF]

I can confirm it is a resource usage issue during runtime. Collectively sound effects have a significant impact on processing and RAM usage. Since an argument can be made that every weapon has it's own unique sound signature, one could argue for a unique sound for every single weapon. But it's simply not practical for us to do that.

Steve, to be fair, I don't think anyone here is asking for every weapon to have its own unique sound. Personally, I would be happy if there was one sound for semi-auto rifles and another for bolt-action rifles. Right now it's weird to have 4 rifles all sharing the same sound, and if the trend continues, that number will increase once the British and Soviet (and the German's FG42?) forces enter the game.

[Dark Knight]

Tons of other games manage to fit vast numbers of sound effects into memory during gameplay. Is it an issue of compression technology or programming techniques that big-budget titles are able to afford but you guys can't?

I honestly mean with no offense with this comment, but I just feel as though it's obvious that other games manage to pack tons of unique sound effects into memory just fine.

[Battlefront.com]

Tons of other games manage to fit vast numbers of sound effects into memory during gameplay. Is it an issue of compression technology or programming techniques that big-budget titles are able to afford but you guys can't?

Possibly. There's a ton of things which can be done if you have a couple of guys pounding away on just that one thing day after day. For a game that sells 1,000,000 copies the minute it comes out... well, they can afford to do all kinds of things we can't.

However, generally we find that it isn't so much a difference in programming but rather a difference in what the program does on the whole. A game might, for example, be able to assume you can only hear up to x number of weapons at one time because there are only x number of players. The code is then optimized with these assumptions in mind. CM often is unable to make those sorts of assumptions because of the nature of what our game does and how players interact with it.

Steve

[Battlefront.com]

Right now it's weird to have 4 rifles all sharing the same sound, and if the trend continues, that number will increase once the British and Soviet (and the German's FG42?) forces enter the game.

A fair point to make, though for something like the FG42 I doubt we would have it share the same sound. That sucker BARKS!

Remember, just because we don't have separate sounds for the Kar98k and Garand doesn't mean we were planning on having one sound for all rifles all the time. It's just the way it worked out this time around.

I'll see if we can at least make the primary rifle and primary SMG of each nation have it's own sound files. That seems to be a reasonable approach that won't cause problems.

Steve

[phil stanbridge]

Ah it would be fab if the Germans could have the K98 - it would help identify sound contacts this way for starters, plus it would sound much more authentic.

[LukeFF]

A fair point to make, though for something like the FG42 I doubt we would have it share the same sound. That sucker BARKS!

Yeah, I've read that the thing was quite the attention-getter.

I'll see if we can at least make the primary rifle and primary SMG of each nation have it's own sound files. That seems to be a reasonable approach that won't cause problems.

That would be great!

[Old_Hickory]

To hear the real report of a K98 during play would really improve the enjoyment level! Great sound really enhances the experience. Very pleased to hear BF will look into this one!

[nachinus]

I'll see if we can at least make the primary rifle and primary SMG of each nation have it's own sound files. That seems to be a reasonable approach that won't cause problems.

Do that, please! Weapon sounds are critical for immersion.

I recall how I learnt to identify every single weapon and cannon in Close Combat II by their sound.

[Mord]

That would be very cool!

Mord.