PEB14
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Posts posted by PEB14
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(I summon you three guys, as you are the leading, active campaign designers on the forum…)
This weekend I performed some tests in order to understand the mysterious Refit, Resupply, Rest parameters of a campaign.
Using CMFI, I designed a 4-missions campaign featuring 1 company of Germans vs 1 company of Indians (without their light mortars), all core units. I recorded the headcount in each unit (down to squad level), both at the beginning and at the end of each mission. Not all units are featured in each scenario, except in the last one. I don't track ammo as I suppose that behaviour is similar to headcount's.
The first test I performed helped me understand a few things:
- parameters are applied at the BEGINNING of the corresponding mission. So parameters from Mission 1 will be applied before Mission 1 starts, parameters from Mission 2 will be applied before Mission 2 starts, etc. It seems obvious, but this is not what I thought…
Anyway, as a corollary, beacause of that I see not reason why the parameters for the first mission of a campaign shall be different from 0…
- parameters are applied ONLY to the units taking part in the mission. Non participating, core units will NOT benefit from the parameters.
The quantitative results from this first test were unconclusive, so I performed a second test. Methodology is the same with the following differences:
- All units participate in Mission 1. They are all submitted to artillery bombardment in order to inflict significant casualties.
- Mission 2 involves 1 platoon from each side at start, another 1 platoon apearing as a reinforcement for each side. No combat action.
- Mission 3 is similar except that the starting and reinforcing platoon are different. No combat action either.
- Mission 4 involves all units.
The second campaign brings the following conclusion.
- In a given Mission, reinforcement units are treated the same as starting units.
- Refit is treated at the scale of the whole force of core units taking part in the mission, including reinforcement. This means that the whole force will get 20%, 50% or whatever Refit you've set. Percentage of headcount in platoon and squad differ very significantly, only the whole force percentage is close to the set one. Some units will get nil, other will get a lot. Hence it appears that Refit troops are distributed randomly into the sub-units.
- Percentage is based on the force size at the beginning of the mission. Let's imagine you're playing a company that started with 120 men and ended the first Mission with 20. If Refit parameter of the next mission the company is involved into is set to 20%, you'll get 4 Pixeltrüppen as Refit. If your company had less losses and ended the last mission with 45 men, you would get 9 Pixeltrüppen. Basically this means that if you suffered many losses in a campaign you'll get a double punishment as reinforcement will be lower that what you could expect…
- There is a saturation effect. If your Refit brings some of your units to full strength, you'll lose some reinforcements: as reinforcement are distributed somewhat randomly, it appears that some are lost if the random numbers exceed full-strength headcount.
It would be interested to test:
- what happens with units down to a very small headcount,
- what is the effect of a 100% Refit on forces whose headcount is below 50% of full strength: arithmetic says that a 100% Refit parameter should NOT bring the force back to full-strength in such a case…
If you have more information regarding the way these parameters work, or if you have ideas for additional tests, you are most welcome to share them here!
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1 hour ago, Aragorn2002 said:
Thank you, not bad, but not quite what I'm looking for. This is MARSH in the editor, isn't it?
Marshes block vehicle movement, this is very different from heath!
Visually I'd go for a combination of Grass T, Weeds and Brushes.
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2 hours ago, Aragorn2002 said:
Can someone please tell me how to get a wind mill in CMRT? I guess it's a flavor object?
Wind mills are buildings in CMBN. AFAIK ain't no such buildings in CMRT.
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11 hours ago, thilio said:
Yes, with exceptions like Dompaire where Thunderbolt were effective during the battle
Absolutely! Excellent counter-example! In the Dompaire case, they were even more than effective, they were decisive!
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From an historical point of view, the Allied Tactical air support in WW2 was more directed against line of supplies and enemy units in movement than against tactical defending positions on the battlefield. So it's not surprising that its effectiveness is not wonderful in the frame of CM WW2 games!
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7 hours ago, StieliAlpha said:
To summarise: I find air support mostly pretty useless and can remember only one game against Bulletpoint, where he used it quite effectively against me. But even there: The result was more of a morale drop for me and a few friendly „KIA pixeltruppen“ on the map.
Not to forget: The risk of „blue on blue“ is quite high…
Hmmm… After my disastrous first employment of air support, last weekend I had a Typhoon destroying an immobilized Tiger II with its rockets in the Scottish Corridor campaign ! In the same mission another Typhoon damaged a Panzer IV enough to turn it impotent (I knocked it down easily with a Churchill afterwards).
In a previous mission of the same campaign another Typhoon wrought havoc amongst a German infantry assault.
Accordingly this was against the AI. But I wouldn't say Air Support is useless!
BTW, thanks to @IanL and @Brille whose advices above make it possible!
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15 hours ago, Vacillator said:
That's probably the answer here as far as moving British troops around.
For me lorry and truck are interchangeable, but in WW2 truck may have been more common parlance?
In modern usage we don't talk about trucks on the road, only lorries. And there are too many of them, but for undeniable reasons
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So you mean lorry is modern English while truck is older language?
Isn't it that "lorry" would be UK English while "truck" would be American English?
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Anyway Carrier were not the primary troop carrier for British Army in WW2! They used lorries and trucks (is there a difference???)...
Carriers were for scouts and heavy weapons (mortars and MG mainly).
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2 hours ago, wolfgang500 said:
In fact this word does exist: "Wagon" or Waggon" (both is correct) means a railway carriage in the first place, while "Wagen" has a more universal meaning comprising everything that has wheels and can roll along
I was aware of "Waggon", not of "Wagon". Danke schön!
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57 minutes ago, WimO said:
You are showing me something in the line below that I have not seen befor. It is the segment "_minor defeat" after "[NEXT BATTLE IF LOSE]". I was using only "[NEXT BATTLE IF LOSE] // campaign end". Is the "_minor defeat" necessary on that line?
[NEXT BATTLE IF LOSE] _minor defeat // campaign end
Good question. The quote is from @Ithikial_AU's campaign design guide…
As I understand it, it is the only way to chose wether the defeat is "minor", "tactical" or whatever. I sure don't know whether it has other consequences.
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Thanks for this new video. Instructive as ever. End your video editing gets better and better!
Just a minor note: SPW means "mittlerer Schützenpanzerwagen", not "mittlerer Schützenpanzerwagon".
Our German native speaking Kameraden will confirm, but I do believe the word "Wagon" doesn't exist in German.
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I think that the only lines that have some influence on your issue are the ones in red below. Is there something significantly different in you campaign file (I think the underscore in front of "minor defeat" DOES matter)?
[PLAYER FORCE] blue
[HUMAN OPPONENT ALLOWED] no
[BLUE VICTORY TEXT] Congratulations Commander.
[BLUE DEFEAT TEXT] Airlanding troops failed to hold the bridge.
[RED VICTORY TEXT] unknown
[RED DEFEAT TEXT] unknown
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
/* Battle #16 */
[BATTLE NAME] Tracked Vehicles Approaching
[WIN THRESHOLD] tactical victory
[NEXT BATTLE IF WIN] Next Battle
[NEXT BATTLE IF LOSE] _minor defeat // campaign end
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15 minutes ago, WimO said:
@PEB14 Bonjour Piere: I run into this problem all the time ... but ... I also always use the expanded and modded flavour options provided by modders years past. The problem might be an issue confined only to the expanded flavour objects ... I don't really know. I have found no easy solutions. My own way of managing it is to create a large master fully populated with flavour objects. When I want to cut it down I first change all of the ground tiles that I am going to cut off to "sand". Then I remove all roads, hedges, buildings etc from those sand tiles. Then I go into 3D map view so I can see the flavour objects on the sand tiles and remove them. Once that's done I return to 2D and cut off the sand tiles. It's labor intensive but keeps things the same on all maps.
Hi @WimO, interestingly, I am working on your Hill 30 Master Map, expanding West and North. So I should face the same problem than you did, shouldn't I?
I just cut outr two third of the maps (your side, with tons of FO), saved, quit and reloaded, but nothing appeared on the — mostly empty — remaining third of the map. Strange… Pleasant, but strange…
I'm wondering wether you didn't upgrade your engine quite lately, which might explain the issue?
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1 hour ago, CarlXII said:
This has been a problem in the past but atleast for me...I have not seen this problem with my recent map designs...
I can cut and add to the maps as desired without the flavoured objects getting displaced.
I just make a quick test with CMBN (latest patch) and it appears that I don't see any problem either! Thank you!
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Hello,
I'm working presently on a Master Map that I intend to cut into various (4, according to my present-state plans) submaps for different scenarios belonging to a campaign. Hence I'm willing to get as much as coherence as possible between the various submaps (that's what Master Maps are for, aren't they?).
Nevertheless, @WimO has warned us that cutting a map throws flavour objects (FO) randomly anywhere, apparently those FO that belonged to the cut out areas. I'm also wondering whether the FO from the non cut-out area are displaced or not?
So what is the optimal way to build a Master Map with the intent to subdivide it? Place FO after cutting out, at the cost of not being able to be coherent from one submap to the next (and to do the same jobs several times), or to place the FO beforehand, at the cost of having to chase the displaced ones all around the map (and with the guaranteed penalty to forget some of them in most inappropriate positions…)?
Experiences mapbuilders' advices most welcome here…
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13 minutes ago, kohlenklau said:
Bonjour Pierre,
I don't think there is an easy way but it is better than you describe with clicking.
Do the "scrub" by holding down LMB while set to clear and move hand and cursor all around. No clicking.
Wax on, wax off
Zoom in to get all those black boxes!
Thank you, yes I use LMB and no single clicks, but still it's a lot of wax painting…
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Hello,
Im reworking a map and I am willing to rebuild the elevations. Unfortunately, I cannot find a mean to remove all elevation locks (black numbers). Is there a simple way to do that, or am I condemned to click on all and every number to do so?…
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5 hours ago, chuckdyke said:
Definitely Zurück and dekung (take cover). I hear often.
"Deckung!"
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16 hours ago, IanL said:
Me neither so I created a scenario and check to see if it would happen:
Spoiler alert - the crew do fire the rear MG at targets on the ground.
Interesting. So for the M10 it means that it can fire, but on its own - no way to order it to fire?!
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17 hours ago, Brille said:
The Shermans have multiple configurations of mg placement but not all are that practical to use in CM.
The one that is directly placed in front of the commanders cupola would be the best in that regard. The placement in front of the loaders hatch is also not that bad either but the loader will only crew these if he has not other things to do...so it could be rare to see him up there.
The mg configuration that is more on the middle of the roof would be the worst to be used for ground work, as you would need to leave the vehicle to operate it properly.
Happened in real life from time to time but is not modeled in CM.
The M10/M18 Hellcat/M36 would be similar cases. The crew may get on the mg if they are attacked by infantry from the back but they´ll not go on the engine deck to turn it to the front.
I guess other nations than the USA don´t bother that much with aa mg on their tanks...at least in WW2.
I remember back in CMx1 aa mg had a bit more freedom: As soon as you "opened up" the crew it was instant 360° aa protection, including ground targets. Sometimes as the US you wouldn´t need to bother to get extra aa canons with you as your tanks would already provide that role...and not to bad.
More boring is the fact that I don't manage to use cal.50 on halftracks either...
No problem to fire with the cal.30, but the second MG in some halftrack (or on a M16 AA halftrack), they seem to never use it...
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13 hours ago, Brille said:
You will find not that many instances in where the AA MG will be of good use. Maybe if some enemies try to sneak onto your back you will see it fire. It is faced backwards and in CM no pixeltrooper is brave enough to stand on the engine deck to fire it to the front.
Forward, backward... I think I never saw any of my Pixeltruppen fire an AA MG...
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2 hours ago, IanL said:
There is some abstraction going on with damage. Your vehicles can have each individual gun or MG damaged and therefore inoperable or you can have the weapons controls damaged and therefore none of your guns or MGs will operate.
In my latest case it was an Achilles wpn controls which went down. I've never been able to fire the main gun nor the AA MG after that.
But I never was able to fire an Achilles AAMG even before wpn controls was knocked out, so that might not be the issue...
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6 hours ago, Wrath of Dagon said:
Btw, weapon controls whatever that means are at 100% in all 4 cases.
I guess "wpn controls" means "weapons control"?
I'm really wondering was this does mean. Apparently, when "wpn control" no weapon can be used. Honestly I don't see what system forbids to use both main guns, coax or bow MG and AA MG???
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3 hours ago, Brille said:
Are you a city child?
Jawhol, Herr Major !
3 hours ago, Brille said:Have you ever been in the countryside at night without any light source around?
Yes your eyes can adapt to a certain degree but if it is even overcast (no moon or starlight) you really don't see **** even if it is a big tank.
In this particular scenario weather is clear (not overcast). While I agree with you, what is really WEIRD is, in the scenario, no infantrymen were able to sneak inside my lines, while tons of vehicles did. I mean, the steel monsters with noisy tracks are able to move unseen 3 meters away from the enemy, while the poor troopers are shot dead by AP rounds of AT gunners shooting from a distance of 100 meters? Come on!
This is fun, but a little bit too much…
3 hours ago, Brille said:I had one instance in CMRT where 2 guys of a squad dropped dead but were still far away from the front and even in a small dent in the landscape.
So they could not be targeted directly. I checked for falling artillery shells around because I assumed it was some shrapnel that got them but nada.
It turned out that one MG42 fired at another squad of mine at the Frontline. Some of those shots however went to high out, traveled for slightly under a kilometer and plunged into the small valley where these 2 guys intercepted the rounds eventually.
Pretty frustrating… and realistic indeed!
But honestly, hitting a guy 100-150 meters away with an AP round in the night… THAT's a feat !
Campaign Refit, Resupply, Rest parameters
in CM2 Scenario and Mod Tips
Posted
@WimO
I can share the Excel file showing the results above, as well as the files I used to build the campaign (so that other people can reproduce the tests easily). I'll share a dropbox link later today.
Indeed, that's why I felt the need for this test...
The problem with this approach is, you lose one of the main dramatic resource of the campaign structure... Not using the 4R will deprive the campaign author of a way to reward or punish players depending of their performance...