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PEB14

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Posts posted by PEB14

    AI initial placement

    in CM2 Scenario and Mod Tips

    Posted

    Hi Phil,

    9 minutes ago, kohlenklau said:

    Hi Pierre,

    Something seems odd.

    Indeed… 🤔

     

    9 minutes ago, kohlenklau said:

    My brain doesn't want to think about AI plans anymore so I am loving to be 99% focused on just H2H stuff.

    Mine is devoted to campaign buildings. I know, this is pure masochism… ☠️

     

    9 minutes ago, kohlenklau said:

    -you are playing against the AI in scenario author mode?

    Absolutely.

     

    9 minutes ago, kohlenklau said:

    -your test AI plan is the only one activated, the other 4 are set to "not used"?

    Yes they are.

     

    9 minutes ago, kohlenklau said:

    -proper set up zone color?

    Not sure what you mean exactly… I've painted only one big SetUp zone in the "Map" menu for the AI side (big blue blob…). And I ensured that all the yellow-painted "SetUp" areas for the 4 groups of my AI plan are all within this big blue blob... 🤔

     

    0

    Combat photography: Photos from the front..

    in Combat Mission Red Thunder

    Posted

    14 minutes ago, Brille said:

    I played this scenario too via PBEM but as far as I recall those were JS1 tanks, not T34. Roughly the same gun but better front armor.

    You may have played a different version of this scenario, because I'm 100% sure that the tanks I'm facing are T-34/85! I was more than surprised to see their incredible performance against my Panzer-wonders. Particularly because in the previous PBEM, I played T-34/76 against Panzer IV  — and the T-34 were no match at all! (this was in "Hill 621 Redux", which is as bad a scenario as "Angriff" is a good one — even though I might be the losing side in both cases in the end…).

    1

    AI initial placement

    in CM2 Scenario and Mod Tips

    Posted

    For initial placement of AI unit, I usually decide precisely where they sit. For the scenario I'm working on, I decided to delegate to the Ai some decisions. So I painted yellow zones in the "SetUp" order for each grou. I ensured that all the yellow painted areas are placed in a big, single SetUp zone, as painted on  the map menu.

    Then, in the "Units" menu, I drop all groups' units inside the SetUp zone of the map (but not necessarily inside the yellow-painted areas).

    When I start the game, units are exactly in the position where I let them in the "Units" !

    Am I suppose to place all Groups inside their allocated yellow-painted areas???? Isn't the AI supposed to to the job as long as the yellow-painted areas are inside the SetUp zones?

    0

    Combat photography: Photos from the front..

    in Combat Mission Red Thunder

    Posted

    5 hours ago, Brille said:

    It was a battle some while ago. But it was in this one that I learnt to really respect the T34/85.

    Oooooh yes.

    I'm presently playing "Angriff" H2H (very nice scenario by the way). WIth my fleet of Panthers and Panzer IVs I was full of confidence. Since this happy time, a pair of those damn T-34/85 wrought havoc among my poor panzers. Part of my Panzer IV were ambushed and lost three of them to a hidden T-34/85, who then won a 1:1 frontal duel versus one of my Panthers, and a few days ago the SAME T-34/85 won a 1:3 duel against most of my remaining Panzer IV, knocking two out within a minute a forcing the last one to retreat into a SU-152 line of sight… I think I hit this tank at least three times but all the 75 bounced off helplessly…

    Annoying to say the least… 🤬

    1

    Operation "Coup de Main"

    in Combat Mission Battle for Normandy

    Posted

    On 11/18/2023 at 1:04 AM, WimO said:

    The CMBN campaign "Operation 'Coup de Main'" has been completed and posted at FGM's Scenario Depot.

    Downloaded!

    By the way, you recommend Abram's and Aris' terrain modifications mods. I could find none of them at the FGM repository. Any idea where to find them?

     

    22 hours ago, Erwin said:

    Thank you, WimO.  I hope this means you will next be designing for the other titles.  :)

    👍

    And if you are short of ideas, feel free to ask… 😊

    0

    Combat photography: Photos from the front..

    in Combat Mission Red Thunder

    Posted

    13 minutes ago, Brille said:

    That is the scenario Im currently in. I thought the Cat is refering to the Panther in the title. But the more Panthers I loose (or almost loose) I have the feeling that the roles are reversed now. :D

     

    Usually those JS2 take at least 1 to 2 ranging shots to be actually on target.

    In 2 Cases now the Panther commanders only could See the muzzle flash and a short sight of the behemoth before they got taken apart.

    @PEB14

    Then you must have been very unlucky in this instance. Most of my Stug loses and kills were one shot penetrations. If the vehicles itself wasnt destroyed the Crew was most likely vaporized because of the cramped interior. Its the same with all the turretless tanks actually.

    Youalways feel very unlucky when it comes to the destruction of AFV: yours always seem to be more brittle that your opponent's, whatever side you plau... I understood only recently that there is a reason for that: it takes generally more than one "killing hit" to just DISCOVER that the tank you're firing at is knocked out. As long as they're not sure, your own tanks go on firing at what might already be a wreck... And so you think that you need three shots to kill a tank while the first was already a kill!

    That may be what happend to my Cromwells against this couple of StuG.

    1

    Combat photography: Photos from the front..

    in Combat Mission Red Thunder

    Posted

    12 hours ago, Brille said:

    I love the Cromwells. Sure they cannot do much in a brawl with Panthers and Tigers but they are good enough for Stugs and Panzer IV.

    You Just need to utilize their speed. Combined with their low sillhouette it makes them good flankers or stealthy hit and runners.

    Lastly I had to use them in a defensive scenario where there was not much place to maneuver (Tilly Junction, I believe). They struggled to take out Panzer IVs, and it took them 4 or 5 penetrating shots to disable StuGs on the only two occasions they got. Let's forget about Panthers.

    They're certainly the most valuable of the British Cruiser tanks by a large margin, but this only proves that the whole concept was an utter failure… 😵

    I won't trade 1 Churchill VII for 2 Cromwell. No Sir!

    1

    Combat photography: Photos from the front..

    in Combat Mission Red Thunder

    Posted

    2 hours ago, Brille said:

    I like playing the soviets as well,especially because of the huge variety of their vehicle Pool.

    And while it is T34 most of the time I like to drive and encounter different tanks once in a while. 

    At the (latewar) Western allies you have almost only Shermans or look alikes of his. In Reallife it is probably the best way to go especially on logistics but in game it sometimes feels kind of sterile.

     

    A unit that is probably overlooked by many is the T34/76. While he is outclassed in anti Tank Work by many Tanks at the late war, he probably is the best infantry support you can find or at least the most durable in saturation of fire.

    Spending all of his ridiculous amount of 70 He rounds in a medium sized match may be a challenge in itself. He just can keep firing.

    Though his weeknesses are translated into the game as well: overworked Commander and bad visibility. But that would be not that important as a sole demolisher unit. :D

     

    I'm not so enthusiast about the Soviet tanks, they're inferior in every aspect to the German in particular in term of spotting speed (bad optics?) and gunnery accuracy...

    You're a little bit harsh with Allied tanks. While the Americans only rely on the Sherman, the Brits have a fait number of tanks. I like the slow and cumbersone Churchill tanks, in particular the Churchill VII whose frontal armor can withstand even Panther shells... The CS version is a must against MG positions with its 94mm gun! On the other hand I really hate the Cromwell. Rolling coffin...

    In the infantry support role the Sherman nearly matches the T-34/76 with more than 50 HE rounds... And I like the 7k MG rounds of the Churchill as well. I think it's impossible to get out of ammo !!!

    1

    Campaign Refit, Resupply, Rest parameters

    in CM2 Scenario and Mod Tips

    Posted

    8 hours ago, Vacillator said:

    Pierre, never mind all of that annoying stuff.  Continue with your work on the campaign my friend ❤️.  Just make sure it's WW2 (so stick to CMFI in this case).  I'll test it if it helps?

    Thank you. 😍

    Don't worry, I'll soldier on. And thank you for the playtest offer, I file the proposal for future use! 😁

    But you must be patient, I don't expect to be able to offer something for playtest before several monthes...

    And FYI, this campaign will be CMBN, not CMFI. I have ideas for CMFI (in particular, a red vs. red campaign...), but this is for an even more distant future...

    0

    Campaign Refit, Resupply, Rest parameters

    in CM2 Scenario and Mod Tips

    Posted

    EUREKA ! 🙌

    @WimO

    La nuit porte conseil, my friend!

    I'm pretty sure I found the answer. BTW, the answer, although somewhat encrypted 🤬, is written in the manual (page 116):

    Quote

    The next section in the Battle Entry is the percentage chance an individual unit has of being completely replaced if lost, repaired if damaged (vehicle only), topped off with full ammo, and brought back to a fully rested state.

    We both started from the misconception that the Refit percentage is referring to some headcount: either the theoretical headcount of the core force, or the number of missing men (your hypothesis), or the current number of men in the core force (my hypothesis).

    But this is wrong.

    As written in the manual quote above, the Refit parameters (and probably the 4 other as well) are "percentage chance", that is a PROBABILITY, for each "individual unit", to be replaced. I'm pretty sure that "individual unit" means just that, each INDIVIDUAL - either a Pixet soldier or a vehicle. Not a squad or a platoon or a core force.

    So basically, at the beginning of each mission, the game rolls a die (1-100) for each and every missing soldier. If the result is below the Refit percentage, the soldier is replaced. Otherwise it is not. And it's probably the same for vehicle repair and ammo (clips) as well.

    Statistically, it means that @WimO approximation is correct. The MEAN replacement value is:

    MEAN Replacement Value = (Core unit value - End of scenario value) X Refit%

    The higher the number of missing soldiers, the closer to the Mean Replacement Value you'll get.

    On the other hand, if the missing heacount is too low, statistical aberrations will become more sensitive (hence, probably, my weird result shown in first post):

    • Example 1: if you miss 100 soldiers at the beginning of a mission, whose Refit parameter is 60%, you're likely to get 60 men back. But there is a very significant probability that you get only 58 or, if you're lucky, 63. In all cases, the ACTUAL refit you get will be either 58% or 63%, which is still close to 60%
    • Example 2: if you miss 5 soldiers at the beginning of a mission, whose Refit parameter is 60%, you're likely to get 3 men back. But there is a non negligible probability that you get only 2 or, if you're lucky, 4. In the first case, the ACTUAL refit you get is only 40%, while it's 80% in the latter case.

    And I'm pretty sure that the lightly wounded soldiers are treated along the same lines (no pun intented...).

    While as a designer I'd really prefer to know how many men I give back to the player as Refit, from a programming point of view the probability approach is clearly much more simple to handle, if only because you don't have to manage the distribution of Refit troops among the different sub-units: the computer only checks wether a soldier is replaced or not. As simple as that!

    Well, that's it

    And as @WimO says, that's the end of it for me! 😁

     

    I hope that this post will be of use to some people at least... 😇

     

    2

    Campaign Refit, Resupply, Rest parameters

    in CM2 Scenario and Mod Tips

    Posted

    Things get more complicated test after test…

    17 minutes ago, WimO said:

    The red numbers in the pdf chart are wounded soldiers carried forward. Nine such appeared at the start of scenario #2 eventhough at the end of scenario #1 the number of WIA reported was 18. This means that 9 died between scenarios.

    I'm under the impression that you are confusing WIA soldiers, that are treated the same as KIA in CM terms (the only difference being that they're shown in the WIA tally at the end of the game), and the lightly wounded ones, that soldier on with a small red cross attached to their rifle icon. These lightly wounded soldier are NOT shown as WIA at the final roster of the game.

    At least, this is the way that I have understood things.

    Regarding your testing procedure: Are all headcount figures given at mission start or at mission end?

     

    I made one additional, unconclusive test.

    Red Force

    Mission 1

    • All core forces used: 93 men
    • Final headcount: 25 men (including lightly wounded)
    • Final headcount for units involved in Mission 2: 17 men (including 5 lightly wounded)
    • Losses: 68 men
    • Losses for for units involved in Mission 2: 49 men

    Mission 2. Refit parameter set to 25

    • 2/3 of core force used
    • Initial headcount: 24
    • Replacement headcount: 7 men

    7 men out of 49 theoretically missing (your computation): 14%

    7 men out of 17 end of Mission 1 headcount (my computation): 41%

    Neither fit the 25% set parameter, yours is closer but misses the target…😉

    The 5 lightly wounded men are still here in their original squads.

    Blue Force

    Mission 1

    • All core forces used: 99 men
    • Final headcount: 24 men (including lightly wounded)
    • Final headcount for units involved in Mission 2: 20 men (including 11 lightly wounded)
    • Losses: 75 men
    • Losses for for units involved in Mission 2: 46 men

    Mission 2. Refit parameter set to 75

    • 2/3 of core force used
    • Initial headcount: 56
    • Replacement headcount: 36 men

    36 men out of 66 theoretically missing (your computation): 78%

    36 men out of 20 end of Mission 1 headcount (my computation): 180%

    Your computation clearly fits the 75% Refit parameter.

    Additionally 6 out of the 8 lightly wounded men (75%, exactly the Refit parameter) have been replaced.

     

    In my previous test with Refit parameters in the 20 to 60% ranges my computation was a better fit...

    So what should one conclude?!

     

    Modding in Combat Mission is really a matter of masochism… 😡 Why the hell these parameters are not properly documented in the Game Manuel !?

    0

    Campaign Refit, Resupply, Rest parameters

    in CM2 Scenario and Mod Tips

    Posted

    Hi @WimO,

    I must say I'm not sure that I understand your results.

    8 minutes ago, WimO said:

    Replacement Value = (Core unit value - End of scenario value) X R%

    Example One:

    Number of soldiers in CORE Unit "A" = 100

    End of scenario "Good Order" soldiers (i.e. not KIA, WIA or MIA) = 80

    R value for "Refit" = 50

    Calculation thus: (100-80)0.50 = 10

    Again, the above is a close enough approximation. The real formula is very slightly more variable.

    You suggest that Replacement value (that is the heacount brought back by the Refit parameter) is proportional to the theoretical headcount of the unit?

    I didn't check it yesterday, but I had the idea while you performed your own tests. And I disagree with your statement. The better approximation, according to my own data, is:

    Replacement Value of Mission A = (Number of men in Core units at the beginning of Mission A) x R%

    Example:

    Number of soldiers in all CORE Units at the beginning of mission A = 100

    R value for "Refit" in Mission A data = 50

    Calculation thus: 100x0.50 = 50

     

    8 minutes ago, WimO said:

    4. Some (or all?) of the casualties noted as WIA at the end of a scenario that survive, appear in the next scenario as wounded (less than perfect "Fitness"?) in the next scenario.

    Wow! You mean, not the lightly wounded casualties?

    How were you able to track them?

    I never considered it possible! I was pretty sure that both KIA and WIA were out of the game as casualties.

    It seems to me (but I didn't check it thouroughly) that the lightly wounded Pixeltrüppen soldier on, keeping their "lightly wounded" status. One exception (that I check today): all lightly wounded Pixeltrüppen are replaced by soldiers in perfect condition when the Refit parameter is set at 100%.

     

    More tests on the way!

    1

    Campaign Refit, Resupply, Rest parameters

    in CM2 Scenario and Mod Tips

    Posted

    @WimO

    I can share the Excel file showing the results above, as well as the files I used to build the campaign (so that other people can reproduce the tests easily). I'll share a dropbox link later today.

    4 hours ago, WimO said:

    I like to try to work with the 4Rs because but they are definitely not clear to work with, absent adequate manual instructions.

    Indeed, that's why I felt the need for this test...

     

    4 hours ago, WimO said:

    🔄For designers who do not like the 4Rs and wish to work without this mechanism, an easy alternative is just to work without a core units file or create one with units that will never be used in the campaign, and then create whatever units you want for each scenario individually, manipulating their strength percentage and fitness.

    The problem with this approach is, you lose one of the main dramatic resource of the campaign structure... Not using the 4R will deprive the campaign author of a way to reward or punish players depending of their performance...

    0

    Campaign Refit, Resupply, Rest parameters

    in CM2 Scenario and Mod Tips

    Posted

    @Ithikial_AU@Mr.X@WimO

    (I summon you three guys, as you are the leading, active campaign designers on the forum…) 😚

    This weekend I performed some tests in order to understand the mysterious Refit, Resupply, Rest parameters of a campaign.

    Using CMFI, I designed a 4-missions campaign featuring 1 company of Germans vs 1 company of Indians (without their light mortars), all core units. I recorded the headcount in each unit (down to squad level), both at the beginning and at the end of each mission. Not all units are featured in each scenario, except in the last one. I don't track ammo as I suppose that behaviour is similar to headcount's.

     

    The first test I performed helped me understand a few things:

    - parameters are applied at the BEGINNING of the corresponding mission. So parameters from Mission 1 will be applied before Mission 1 starts, parameters from Mission 2 will be applied before Mission 2 starts, etc. It seems obvious, but this is not what I thought… 🥴 Anyway, as a corollary, beacause of that I see not reason why the parameters for the first mission of a campaign shall be different from 0…

    - parameters are applied ONLY to the units taking part in the mission. Non participating, core units will NOT benefit from the parameters.

     

    The quantitative results from this first test were unconclusive, so I performed a second test. Methodology is the same with the following differences:

    - All units participate in Mission 1. They are all submitted to artillery bombardment in order to inflict significant casualties.

    - Mission 2 involves 1 platoon from each side at start, another 1 platoon apearing as a reinforcement for each side. No combat action.

    - Mission 3 is similar except that the starting and reinforcing platoon are different. No combat action either.

    - Mission 4 involves all units.

     

    The second campaign brings the following conclusion.

    - In a given Mission, reinforcement units are treated the same as starting units.

    - Refit is treated at the scale of the whole force of core units taking part in the mission, including reinforcement. This means that the whole force will get 20%, 50% or whatever Refit you've set. Percentage of headcount in platoon and squad differ very significantly, only the whole force percentage is close to the set one. Some units will get nil, other will get a lot. Hence it appears that Refit troops are distributed randomly into the sub-units.

    - Percentage is based on the force size at the beginning of the mission. Let's imagine you're playing a company that started with 120 men and ended the first Mission with 20. If Refit parameter of the next mission the company is involved into is set to 20%, you'll get 4 Pixeltrüppen as Refit. If your company had less losses and ended the last mission with 45 men, you would get 9 Pixeltrüppen. Basically this means that if you suffered many losses in a campaign you'll get a double punishment as reinforcement will be lower that what you could expect…

    - There is a saturation effect. If your Refit brings some of your units to full strength, you'll lose some reinforcements: as reinforcement are distributed somewhat randomly, it appears that some are lost if the random numbers exceed full-strength headcount.

    It would be interested to test:

    - what happens with units down to a very small headcount,

    - what is the effect of a 100% Refit on forces whose headcount is below 50% of full strength: arithmetic says that a 100% Refit parameter should NOT bring the force back to full-strength in such a case… 😯

     

    If you have more information regarding the way these parameters work, or if you have ideas for additional tests, you are most welcome to share them here!

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