Bulletpoint

Yes I thought that sounded a little bit too small, but I'm no expert. This stuff always boggles my mind. Thanks for digging up the source and the pics, I appreciate it.

I think he meant the weather and light levels specifically here.. I think that's not represented in the game currently? About the experience, yes, but I don't think fatigue and nervousness affect the spotting - as far as I understood the recent soft factor test by Josey Wales..

Thanks a lot for the good answers everybody. I don't have a strong preference either way, east or west front, that's why I thought I would ask for the quality of the scenarios. Of course that will always be subjective, but I wanted to hear your take on it. I'd much rather play a great campaign in a theater I don't (think I) like so much than a mediocre campaign in an interesting theater. Did Paper Tiger design any of the campaigns of those two games? Not saying other designers are not good, I just came to enjoy the quality of the guy's work in CMBN

I'm thinking about buying one of these two - which would you say has the better scenarios and campaigns? (considering both the ones that come with the games and the community made ones)

There's something 'bout them little shrooms

Just to make sure, what time of day is the scenario, and how are the weather conditions? Do you have smoke and vegetation toggled ON?

That's a fascinating fact. Do you have a source?

Yes, that is my assumption too. All hits result in a "penetration" message. I guess what happens is that the game correctly calculates that the bullet hits the windshield, correctly calculates that it penetrates, but then the bullet path is stopped from hitting the driver and instead there's some kind of random lookup on a table to see what the effect of that penetration will be. And getting the driver killed is only a small chance on that table. So in effect, the driver can soak up tonnes of ammo as long as he has his windshield. I suppose the easy solution would be to reduce the armour value for the windshield to zero, or simply disable it completely from armour hit calculations (letting all bullets pass through it as if it were air)

That's a really clever idea. I just tried it out, and it works. Jeeps don't move now. I'm running the test a couple of more times now, using the stationary jeeps. The pattern seems to be the same. The jeep drivers without a windshield get killed within the first 15-20 seconds every time. Often faster, but it also depends on how quickly the Germans spot them. The ones with a windshield survive much longer, but the survival time varies. I had one test where all but one of the jeeps had been knocked out after 1 minute. But I'm looking at another test now where there are two jeeps surviving after 2 minutes. This is at 130m distance.

I have been thinking the same thing. The CM2 series started out with a modern title (Shock Force), so maybe the "glass" material was defined as bullet resistant back then?

I tried that of course It makes the jeep drivers dismount and I can't put them back in, even in the "Deploy Allies" setup mode.

Some time ago, I posted a video showing a jeep surviving a lot of bullets straight through the windshield. Testing was done, and it was found jeeps were not invulnerable to small arms fire. However, I decided to do some more testing, and I think there is a problem with jeeps and their windshields. The result of my test is that jeep windshields are not invulnerable against small arms fire, but that the glass offers a very high degree of protection. I belive it should offer no protection at all. As far as I know, WW2 jeep windshields were just regular glass. Details of test: 8 lanes, 1 jeep in each, VS 1 German team with 1 LMG (and sometimes a marksman with a scoped rifle). Distance: apprx. 150m. 3 jeeps have windshield up, 5 have it down. This seems to be random on purchase. Results: The jeeps with windshield up often survive several minutes worth of fire. Most of the bullets hitting the windshield cause no damage. Sometimes, the driver will get killed from frontal fire, but this is quite rare. Mostly what happens is tat the moment the jeep reverses to flee, it turns a bit and the driver very quickly gets killed from fire from the unprotected side or rear. In other cases, the driver bails out and very quickly gets hit. Often before he hits the ground. The drivers of the jeeps with the windshield down often get killed by the first or second German MG burst. It's difficult to do a 'scientific' test of this issue, as there's no way of making the jeeps stay put. Even fanatic drivers quickly start to reverse away from the enemy, often exposing their flanks. I think this issue also affects trucks and other vehicles with window glass, but I haven't tested this. Link to the original thread with video: http://community.battlefront.com/topic/125392-invulnerable-jeep-now-with-video/

I had this bug too. It's rare, but it happens.

Don't worry, I don't think you're implying anything. Sometimes people notice odd things happening in the game, and in rare cases they turn out to be bugs that are later corrected. That makes the game better for all of us. I don't know if the game models armour joints, but don't all Shermans have either one big angled block of armour on the front hull, or they have a cast rounded hull? Not sure if that should be vulnerable to those effects...?

Thanks for the update, but is there only modern stuff in this year's bones? Was hoping for a bit more about the ww2 games modules etc

I've been playing around with that penetration calculator quote a bit, and I haven't found any points where it differed too much from what happens in game. But if you found any weird results, let's hear. It's often interesting stuff.

As far as I remember, the main points of that discussion were that the SMGs kept their accuracy out to max range (200m), and that the K98 was not very accurate at range. I agree with you that it's more relevant to players of this game to test for effectiveness than for accuracy - though of course those two things are very linked.

That's clever. But you still have to manually read the results of each test I guess? I'm not sure if you're aware that there was a guy some years ago who did a test of the accuracy of various CMBN weapons? He was analysing kills per bullet, whereas you're looking at kills per minute.

Thanks @Drifter Man for doing all these tests and sharing them here. Some of this seems puzzling, such as the K98 being so useless. Obviously it was no machinegun, but it was no pea-shooter either Would be interesting to see a comparison with the other basic rifles of the various nations...

Thank you for sharing this anecdote. I think there's a world of difference between a serious wargame such as CM and many of the instant gratification shooters. I personally think of CM as an "anti war game" - it shows how quickly any soldier on the battlefield can turn into a little cross, often for no good reason at all.

I like this idea, especially if the squad leader and his binoculars stay with the gun team to spot for the MG.

Now that we're all just happily listing our wishes for Santa, here's another one that would be great to have if the elves could make it work: Limited spotting when the sun's in the eyes of your troops. So, attacking in the early morning light with the sun behind you would give you an advantage.

I'd like to see a "limited direct fire order" for mortars, which would make the mortar fire spotting rounds to get the range, then drop 3-5 very fast rounds on target, then stop firing. If we can't get that, I'd just like to see fire missions going through much faster when using the mortar squad's own officers as the spotting unit.

Sounds very sensible. We can already toggle trees and smoke, so would be nice to add: Toggle darkness Toggle weather (fog, rain, snow)

I noticed that the tank commander of the Panzer IVG (late) and (latest) have the commander sticking halfway out of the turret when unbuttoned. The rest of the PZIV family only shows the commander sticking his head out. Not sure if this is a "bug" as such - I think it's an issue caused by someone forgetting to lower the commander of some tank models. By the way, I'm still on v 3.12. Not sure if it was fixed in 4.0.