Bud Backer

What am I missing? I don't see what I can download to see your test.

Do you see this with only AT13, -14, or both? I did check on my units because with so many missiles fired I was concerned I was running out but I didn't see an unusual depletion

I didn't notice the depletion you describe, Thewood1, but I admit I was more focused on the misses, being a bit preoccupied with killing my enemy LOL

That's very interesting. Did you test this with 1.01 or 1.03? You're right of course about which face of the M1 I'd attack - clearly the turret side is best and while I don't think the majority of my shots were able to attack that, it's what one would try to go for.

Thanks for clarifying that. There a lot of good info here.

I wonder - does Hull Down have a big impact on accuracy? Yes, I realize that the answer yes seems self evident, but then I wondered - would the fact the missile is guided actively reduce the benefits of Hull Down, or does the smaller target mean that it's harder to hit regardless how the missile is brought to the target?

No worries, better to ask than not.

All were fired "Deployed" I guess that means on a tripod?

That's an interesting point. I didn't see any morale issues but then "nervous" is not a status that I usually pay much attention to. Maybe I should?

That may very well be - for some - not all units had any fire near them at all. But yes, it would stand to reason that suppression will have an impact. It seems I'll have to run a series of tests: -Rain/no rain -Wind/ no wind - not a factor here but might as well know what it does for future reference -suppression/no suppression -trees -target movement -short/med/long range As a separate subset - APS - how many shots does it take before it stops firing? I'll need a few days off work...

I will have to run a few tests, rain being one. I wondered if it was a known factor, so far it seems no one has mentioned it before so it's not common knowledge. Suppression - good point. I wondered about that too. I believe that some may have had some suppression, but I am am certain that some that fired and kept missing did not. That's the challenge with this - a great deal of variables to account for.

Really stunning. My wife would be bugging me about buying it and restoring it

That's right, but to kill it and 1 Bradley, I fired 12+ missiles. From Thewood1 above seems like my %hits is a bit low....

And there is also part of the conundrum to me. I have no issue with APS effectiveness. It's not good for me in this battle but it seems realistic. It's really weird that I could hit that Abrams of yours each time I fired, even though it was in some light woods, and yet miss so many other shots on other vehicles. It does suggest to me that there is some subtlety I'm missing in using these creatures but I can't see what it is because to me 2/12 hits vs 5/5 hits shared no difference in circumstances. (Again I'm not complaining that APS works. The fact the I hit an APS vehicle 5 times and it didn't penetrate is fine with me).

Some were, yes. Not dense trees mind you. But I was not hitting trees, I was hitting ground beyond the targets.

I'm saying they do not hit the target. Even non APS. Well, not as often as your test showed. I fired over a dozen missiles at non-APS vehicles and the missiles simply plowed into the ground often several action squares away from the target.

Ok, so that confirms for me they can hit more frequently than I have seen. Great news! Which brings me back to my questions. What affects that. Clearly crew is not the determining factor as mine were all better than what you used in your test. Is it the rain? Ps: Thank you for taking the time to test. I'm at work so I can't now. But I wanted to pose my question to the group here as people may have recommendations and knowledge I'm lacking.

Then you thought right. I am not asking about APS' effectiveness. I AM talking specifically about hitting the target, not about what happens after. Non-APS stuff is killed - WHEN HIT. APS works well in stopping kills WHEN HIT. The issue I'm examining is what affects hitting, not killing. I am missing the target quite wildly in many shots.

I'm no expert either, hence the questions. But, to respond to your comment - the min range on these weapons is listed as either 80m or 100m. I can see that that might be problematic in terms of hitting a moving target at such close range, but I'm firing at 9-10 times that range.

First off, this is not a complaint thread; it is an information thread. I'm not saying anything is wrong, I'm trying to learn to use stuff effectively. In a current battle, I purchased a substantial number of AT-14 and AT-13 ATGMs. All are veteran with high morale and +1 leadership. They are fully deployed (not semi-). The environmental conditions are low wind, but a steady rain. The targets are all approx 700-800m range from my ATGM units, and are stationary. They are M1s and Bradley's. Most are hull down but not all. What I am experiencing is a frightening number of misses. In what seems to be about 20 missiles fired, 5 have hit. If the target is not equipped with APS, it's toast, even if it's an Abrams, so their capacity to kill is quite impressive, but they do not hit very often. What factors could I influence (or can I not control) that impacts accuracy. My assumption is that this is all working as intended, so the problem lies with either me or the conditions in the battle. I'd like input on how to improve my effectiveness with these weapons.