arado234

Ludi,I think you mis-understood me(my fault actually)in that I know Ultra rarely provided actual uboat locations but what it did do was provide uboat intentions,meaning the Allies had a good idea(I also know about the German grid manipulation)where the subs were going to setup.This in turn helped them with their Hunter-Killer groups and helped reduce(but not totaly eliminate)heavy losses.In the end it was of course Allied might and technology and the fact that they realised the importance of the uboat war much more than Hitler did in that the Allies couldnot loose. As far as Allied subs being the crude form of Ultra the main reason I mentioned it was in the SC series of games the idea(im guessing)is to keep the game fairly simple.I like the idea of your post 13 but again(I know I bring this up alot)if you bring that in then you would also have to adjust overall Allied war potential to makeup for the fact that the Allies dont have any type of Ultra and are going to suffer much heavier losses without the historical ability to replace them.If that is brought in then the Germans are done. Imho alot of the things we want are left out of the game to make it winnable for both sides.I think Hubert as done a great job in achieving this.Im all for adding new ideas but its such a hard balance to achieve.

WOW Jersey John I didnt know that many people died.W.T.F.is a cultural Revolution?Is that like ethnic cleasning?You wonder why Politicans are seen in such a bad light.Unreal.

Rambo you also mention about Russia/USA almost going to war but it didnt happen,with Hitler in power there is no doubt it would have. I agree with you that Russia wasnt much of an Allie and in some cases they were just the same as the Nazis but atleast Stalin and the rest had the common sense not to start a major world war which would surely have wiped us prettywell all out.

Rambo I agree with you totally about how stupid it was to land on some of the beachs(especially those waste of time islands)but if the Germans had defeated Russia(dont know if that would have ever been possible)do you really think that madman would stop.You can be absolutley sure that after he finished with England(which would then be in huge trouble)this would cause the rest of Europe,Turkey,the Mid-East oil etc,all to fall into his hands.He would no longer be resource poor.Dont you think that he would then turn his sights on America.Remember the Germans were years ahead of us in rocket tech.and for sure he would start firing them at America,which would have NO defence.Also with no bomber offensive the Germans would be free to start to work on an Atomic bomb plus who knows what type of Chemical or biological weapons they would have developed.Im VERY glad and VERY gratefull of all the young men and women that saw that none of what I just wrote had even the slightest to chance to happen because if it did im sure alot of us wouldnt be here today.

Hey Hubert GO HABS GO.Have a merry christmas.That goes for everyone.

JerseyJohn im not sure that the Brits and French could have done anything else(Standing up to Hitler after they sold out the Czechs which was REALLY STUPID).The only other recourse would be to let him wipeout minor after minor country with no threat from anyone.Because the French and the Brits.declared war it forced Hitler to change his plans radically.He couldnt prepare his country for war in 1942 because he was already at war and suffering losses(especially after the Battle of Britain).It changed his whole strategy and the course of the war.If we just sat back and did nothing untill we thought we were ready who knows what Hitler may have achieved by then. I agree with you in that alot of suffering just continued at the hands of the Soviets and we just traded one tyrant for another but where did you get your info on overall human losses due to wars on the latter half of the 20th century?Over 50 million died as a result of WW2(dont know the overall human cost in WW1)It was the single most destructive war ever fought.Im not familiar with the losses from the other wars fought but was it really over 60 million(im guessing the human lives lost in WW1)? Rambo do you really think it would have been wise to just let the Europeans fight it out?I know it was still a long shot but without U.S.actual involvement Hitler may have been able to pull off some sort of victory.How do you think the world would view America and what type of a world would people(including America)be living in?Imho it would have been absolutly horrible.You can also bet that if Hitler remained in power as soon as he figured he had the upper hand he would start the dam war all over again(this time with the latest and greatest rockets which would have been able to hit America).Now America and the rest of what was left of the world would have to fight some nut that could fire rockets anywhere armed with who knows what.Stopping Hitler decisivley with overwelming firepower was the right thing to do.It aslo showed the Russians that if they tried to start anything that America would fight.

Snowstorm I have read both those.They are quite interesting

Another excellent book to read on this subject is called:The German Wars by D.J.Goodspeed.

What Ludi says would be a good idea but perhaps the fact that the Allied( who it mostly benefits)subs can spot for their A.S.W.units should be left as is because in imho this crudley represnts the effect Ultra had on the Allied uboat effort.Being able to find the location of subs without taking any real losses is EXACTLY what Ultra did.It also helped greatly in avoiding uboats alltogether(is the option available to re-route convoys or are they still hardwired).

J.DF.the 2nd what you say makes total sense but do you think that you would have to put Allied industrial might more on track to historical levels?The reason I say this is because the Tiger,Panther,KingTiger vs the Sherman.The Sherman had really no hope against any of these tanks but because we could grossly outproduce the Germans it didnt matter(I do realise that the Allies can invest in heavy tanks).These games arenot setup that way for obvious reasons but in this case it might have to be?

Did the technology even exist for this type of an upgrade.Todays subs are lightyears ahead of any WW2 sub.

If you get the port below five then its use is crippled,meaning that no unit can embark from it and any unit trying to land in it has to wait one turn before thet can unload,which makes them vulnerable to enemy attack. As far as operating goes if a land unit isnot sitting on a rail tile then it cannot be operated.You maynot have enough mpps to operate both units?Other than that I dont know why.Maybe send Hubert the game turn you have mentioned and he could have a look.

Imho Russia should start with a little more(dont know how much)industrial capacity right away.We all know that Allied might was just to overwhelming for the Axis so the game is play balanced but perhaps it could be setup in such a way that if the Axis really do start to get the upper-hand then(this would be a tough one to decide when it kicks in) historical Allied industrial might kicks in over a few turns.This would give them a second chance to turn the game around.It could be setup as an option and if accepted then the overall victory conditions change making so the Allies would have to win quicker.

Hey Rambo I didnt know you had played Third Reich.Yes them freakin U-Boats were real nasty against England,although as soon as America went to war those poor subs were in big trouble.

It is worth mentioning that when you compare the total Allied losses of merchant shipping for WW2(around 21 million tons)compared to what they produced(43 million tons)once the Allies(Brits.mainly)survived the German''happy times''it was over.The liberty ships the Amis.were producing could be made in about 10 days.However if Germany had gone allout from the start with a uboat campaign she may have been able to starve England into submission.I have read quite a few books on the subject and it was possible.Ignoring tech.and the possibilty the enemy had centemeter radar and thinking Enigma was un-breakable didnt help the German cause. In the Game Third Reich it is possible to starve England out of the war by at the beginning of the Year Start Sequence(thats when you calculate the total number of B.R.P.S,sorta like mpps)if England is below a certian amountof B.R.P.S. the Germans have an option to accept a 1 time British surrender.Dont know if this would work for SC.

Imho if an AirFleet is allowed to be operated in any weather condition out of harms way then why is it not allowed to just fly out of harms way in bad weather?(I can see not flying combat missions)There is noway possible you would be able to fly 100s of planes in a blinding snowstorm,or hurricane out of harms way so why should you be able to operate them?To prevent planes from being trapped by weather and being overrun by enemy ground troops we need to have weather reports that would give the forcast for the next week or two.Look how important it was for Dday.

Hkelukka what you say makes sense but im wondering how hard all this would be to program into the A.I.?

True about how the B.O.A.plays in SC but believe me,if the German player chooses to go allout with uboat tech.and the Allies dont discover it fast enough those tech.5 uboats with say a three star and above battle experience are VERY hard to kill.They are also devestating to any Allied war ship especially if the German player concentrates on sinking first the Brit destroyers as best as he can(this leaves the rest of the British fleet helpless and then the Uboats can go attacking and sinking the Brit ships in port).It then forces the Brits(who at first cant really afford it)to start spending on A.S.W. and Carrier L.R.(which is also quite expensive).I know the Brits.have three Carriers but those Carriers are prettywell useless in rough seas,so to just depend on them is risky.

Desert Dave I know I have brought this up before Ultra played a huge part in the latter sinking of Uboats and convoys avoiding them all together.I do realise the difficulty and maybe even the impossibility of somehow adding it but it was VERY important for the Allies.Many Uboat at sea re-supplyings were stopped because a destroyer just happened to be at the right spot at the right time.

Teutonkopf what you say about invading is right(the fact that France can even launch a major amphib. invasion is wrong and same with the Brits. early in the war) but because the game was simplified for easier playing(im sure to program the A.I.)then these units have to be able to invade.What might be alot simpler is just limit the amount of units that can land per turn.If you choose to send a Tank army to invade that would use up say half of all available invasion craft,etc etc.I like your way better but im just thinking about keeping it simple to program and play.I dont think that France should have any capability or the Brits early on unless they invest in it.

LOTS of great ideas but in the end(like Big Al)pointed out,how complex do we want the game to be and as mentioned before we also have to think about the A.I. Im assuming the more you add the harder it is for the A.I. to be programmed?

If you are going to plan a SeaLion.like SeaMonkey says you should plan right from the start.It will limit the Ground forces you have for Russia but you will generally have a bigger airforce. The problem with Sealion is if you fail(landing on England in most cases jumps American and Russian war readiness)usually means you have suffered catastrophic losses and are in big trouble.It also depends on how you have Englands surrender setup.Where is the last Capital.If it is Alexandria then if the Allied player is smart,all he has to do is move his whole navy to Africa and goodluck in coming across to take Alexandria.

Imho teutonkopf has a GREAT idea.I think those extra upgrades should be available for the combat units.Remember Panzer General.Those Engineers and Pioneer units removed the Rugged defence and they helped with moving across rivers.Most offensive units have them. I dont have a problem with the operation of aircraft(even though it is way off base)because this generally helps the Allies.Since they are the ones that have the most limitations then maybe the operation of Airfleets should stay the way it is? Hubert,is the Atomic bomb in this game?I hope so(I know SeaMonkey doesnt like it, ha ha).

Imho SeaMonkey is absolutley correct.

Looking for opponent for P.D.E.(have latest patch)or W.a.W. Will also try SC P.T.O.Not very good yet. Dont care which side. tomnichols@shaw.ca