arado234

Desert Dave I have a signed print by some of the Germans who flew that attack.Its a painting(artist proof)of some ME262s and Arado234s attempting to bomb the bridge.Its called:The Bridge at Remagan, by Robert Taylor.

Desert Dave I have never seen anyone explain things the way you do.I LOVE IT.You definetly provide that wayout there answer.Most entertaining.

Why not have the ability to research the A-bomb.It could depend on what territory you conquered as you would need the right resources for the bomb.In other words your tech.research would only have the potential to advance as you conquered the countries that had the resources necessary for the bomb.This would make it VERY expensive and time consuming like it really was.If someone wants to try it then why shouldnt they. As far as the effect it would have that would depend on how many were dropped.I cant see a country continuing the fight if they get clobbered with four or five of them.It would also depend on the country being bombed overall situation(like the Japs were done and those bombs just made them quit sooner).The morale of the troops overall would start to decline in reality as the situation becasme hopless and the Atomic bomb would just dramaticlly speed that up.

bowenw Panzer General was a tactical game with strategic implications.This game is Grand Strategy game so you will have to plan WAY ahead as far as allocating and using your mpps(especially if your mpp starved like Japan).Cant compare the two.

JerseyJohn I dont see England having much chance.I guess they could get lucky.If Hitler and Stalin made this pact then Hitler may plan for an attack on England and be much better prepared and if he got the chance to trap the B.E.F.he would do it. As far as Russia fighing in Mongolia etc I think the Russians with German help would be able lay a beating on anyone foolish enough to try and attack them.They could re-enforce much faster than the Allies(especially ground forces). I could see the whole Allied alliance unravel if the Chinese decided(which they may do)to tell the Japs to either give back all they took or the Chinese join the Axis.Then its REAL trouble for the Allies. If the Axis did''win'' then forsure as soon as either Hitler or Stalin got the chance they would just backstab eachother and the whole thing would start again.This time who knows what would happen.I guess it depends on who started what would have the big effect on who joined what side.Total chaos.It would also be REAL interesting if one side had the upper hand on the other in Nuclear research.It would be a total mess..

Imho if in reality this did happen(games can be modified to make it winnable for both sides)Italy would still join the Axis and try and grab what she could in Africa.I cant see Spain joining the Allies with the Germans sitting right there,especially if Hitler has no Russia to worry about.If he promised Gibralter then imho Spain would go for it just to avoid being occupied. As far as building planes goes ,dont you think the Axis are going to build ALOT.Remember the Allies still have to get their planes to the battlefield.The Axis already have a land route(unless th Allies can still just zoom planes around the world).The Allies would need MORE carriers or a land staging route.It would be possible against Russia but I dont see any quick route against Germany. Goodluck in keeping up with the Axis as far as land forces go.You cant just teleport tanks.The Axis would have a HUGE atvantage in this regard.Plus they probably will have more and better ones. With neither side able to attack the others infrastructure then it would be one HUGE armed force against another.

I can see where this game is headed.The Allies control the seas and the Axis control Eurasia.There is no hope of either side winning.The Axis will just build a horde of tanks and planes and the Allies will have no hope of doing anything.The Axis mpp base would be huge. The Russians built 105.000 tanks and S.P.guns.Germany built about 47.000 America built about 88.000.I didnt mention England because they would probably be done. Arty.Russia built about 500,000 Germany about 160,000 tubes. America built about 258,000. Aircraft.Russia built about158,00 Germany about 190,000 America built about 325,000.Japan about 76,000. Since there would be noway to bomb or cause Germany or Russia to loose any real amount of these weapons you can only assume the Axis would have even more. As far as the Atomic bomb goes who knows who would get it first.Lets not forget Germanys HUGE stockpile of chemical weapons(which Xwormwood mentioned earlier)that the Allies knew nothing about.The nerve gas they had was VERY nasty. Im not saying this isnt going to be fun,because it is.Im just saying that the Axis are going to have a freakin MASSIVE land force compared to the Allies and with all the resources available to them,I cant see either side winning but im going to love trying.

JerseyJohn it all seems possible what you have written but with Hitler and Stalin in power I cant see there ever be any lasting peace(not even 10years).Sooner or latter one or both of them is going to stir the pot.Imho the only way it could work would be if Hitler and Nazism Stalin and Communism as he see it would also have to be eliminated.

JerseyJohn you may be thinking of the HE162(Salimander)?It did come apart during flight and was flowen by the Hitler Youth.The H229 wasnt.H229s biggest problem(from what I can recall)was it was quite time consuming to make.It was designed to absorb radar impulses.The glue the Germans used was mixed with plain ash and I cant remember what else.That and making the plane curved with minimal radar traps and angles made it a REAL nasty plane.From what I recall the test aircraft flew great but the pilot lost control(not sure why)and crashed it.It was designed to carry 4 30mm cannons and 2500 lb bomb load .It would have been perfect to bomb our heavy bomber bases in England. The Germans also built the HE280 jet fighter in 1942.It to was better than the ME262 but because Heinkel didnt get along with Goering and the rest,Willy Messerschmidt(spelling?)got the contract to build the 262.Politicans sure are stupid at times.

JersyJohn I saw an Excellent show on the Horton229.It was made out of wood(our radar at the time only gave 2min of warning time of an attack.I believe its top speed was around 650 m.p.h.) and was so far advanced above anything we had that nothing in our arsenal(except sheer numbers)could even come close to hit.It could even out fly the ME262 in speed and the Mustang in dogfighting capabilties.The Ami.aircraft was just coming off the drawing board to the test stage.The Horton229 flew in late 1944.If the Hortons had been given all they needed they figure they would have had a working combat ready aircraft by early to mid 1944.It would have been REAL bad for our air boys for a while.One of the reasons the Hortons wanted to build it was to get back at the Brits.for shooting down and killing one of their cousins or some other realtive during the Battle of Britain. As far as building a rocket to hit America,Germany was working on the A10 which when completed(it was supposed to be by mid to late 1940s)would be able to hit America.With no bombing of Penumunde(Im guessing ay the spelling)they may have been able to build it.

SnowStorm you can bet that after the Turks were''encourged''to become friendly to Germany that Hitler would be coming through the back way and for sure the Caucasus would be a MAJOR target.Russia would be in ALOT of trouble if Stalin went ahead with his officer purge and didnt listen to what Generals he had left.Also if he chose to keep on ignoring most of what his spies were telling him then I dont know if Russia could hang on.With Germany not suffering the losses in the Battle of Britain and no fighting in Africa then it would even be harder for Russia.

If this had really happened(im soooooooooo glad it didnt)I can see so much potential for backstabbing.Hitler no doubt attacks Russia feeling his back is secure.IF he was able to defeat Russia imho France and England would have to giveup even more(especially France)or face total destruction.In the end I can see a MAJOR showdown against a VASTLY larger American armed force with catastrophic consequences for all.There is noway I believe Hitler would be content untill he had it all.I wouldnt be at all suprised to see Atomic and chemical weapons used.YAHOOOO for everyone.It probably would come down to the side with the best technology for delivering W.M.D.s long distance.I would bet on Germany to have that tech.first Ok someone else give their 2cents worth.

Xwormwood even if the Amis. did start to really ramp up supplies to England it wouldnt do much good if the B.E.F.was captured.All the Brits could do was arm the civilan pop.Not much chance against Paras. and whatever troops the Germans brought in by air.The Royal navy wouldnt be able to do anything about it.Germany probably wouldnt need any tanks.England may verywell have surrenderd.Thank goodness we never had to find out.

Xwormwood even if the Amis.somehow did strt to really ramp up supplies to England,if the B.E.F.

If the Germans had been smart and destroyed the B.E.F.when they had the chance England may have sued for peace.Without those 300.000 plus troops getting back Britain would have been prettywell defenseless.Then just drop Paras on an airfield(like in Crete) and start flying in troops.The Royal Navy couldnt do anthing about it.Ultra wouldnt have been really any help yet as it was just barely starting to have any effect.Other than that somewhat risky move Hitler really didnt have much of a chance to take England.

I smell a possible holy war starting(lol).

Rambo i just love your point five.

Kuniworth I have no idea what you are refering to but I sure want to see it happen

SeaMonkey of course if Hitler played his cards right he may have been able to do what you said.Ive brought that up many times before(Hitler going into Russia as a''liberator'')and for sure if he had done that it would have had a HUGE effect on the war.But Hitler was nuts and there was no hope of that.If you put that option into any WW2 game and Russia does actually become Allied with Germany then there would be no point to the game.The options we discuss here are always fun but some of them(for good reason)are left out. As far as manipulating people goes,absolutly but there is a breaking point. I love your comments about intel(how true it is today).I would think that back in WW2 intel was easier to trust.Look what Ultra,Magic did for us(shortend the war by about two years). As far as Stalin not believing his own spies,this for the most part was true early on but he did believe is spies when they told him Japan wasnt going to attack so he may or maynot have believed his spies if they told him about German attack through Poland.He didnt want believe most of what he was told when the Germans were preping for Barb. Imho if you start to factor in ALL the what-ifs of WW2 then I cant see the Axis ever winning.This is such a tough subject to decide on.I could go on and on(as im sure most here could)about if this country had only done that etc but all things being equal and all the leaders of all the major powers being able to realise whats at stake then I cant see how the Axis(as they were set-up during WW2)could ever win. SeaMonkey you mention that you are in power not the leaders of the time so that initself changes everthing.For sure your ideas would make a VERY intersting game.I hope it happens.

Xwormwood I know from what ive read about the German nuclear program and other military scientific research is ALOT of the German scientists left EXACTLY because of Hitlers racist ideals and some of the scientists that did stay tried to sabotage alot of research that was done for the German war effort.It would have for sure been a much different attitude in Germany and possibly elsewhere if when Hitler conquered a country he let the occupied country run itself and be Allied to Germany. People(in some cases) seem to just adapt to a given situation and learn to live with & if the occuping country doesnt get to ridiculus just accept it. All these ideas are great but I have no idea how you would ever add them to the game.It sure would make things VERY interesting.

Xwormwood I guess its possible the Amis.would have spent the money elsewhere but the only reason I suggested it was the money spent was for the war effort so im just assuming it would have went somewhere else for the war effort?

Xwormwood I

If the non-racist regime did get into power in Germany then all those Atomic scientists may have stayed and worked for Germany.Who knows what would have happened.These possibilties bring up even possibilties.Its a computer programers nighmare but I LOVE IT.

All I can say is YES to those possibilties. It would be one interesting game if the German and Russian ones happened in the same game.

Bill I havent loaded the newest patch.I must give it a go. Speaking of loosing your Carriers KSW sank most of mine(well laid trap by him) and I still just about won.If I had gotten clear weather for enough turns I would have beaten him(he also drove me to the very last city in India(I tried a chinese suicide attack and lost China REAL fast) and I was still able to push him all the way back invade Japan and come close to winning).If the new patch helps then I for sure will give it a try. Some here dont like the Atomic bombs being in the game.If they are to be removed then the Amis should get something substantial in return.The Manhattan project cost a HUGE some of money an effort.