arado234

I loved Squad Leader.Remember them German HMGs just mowing down Russians when the Russians would go red?

Those A.T.guns when used properly and teched out are a great way to knock down tank units. Against a Human player,attacking Spain can be a huge mistake if you dont plan your overall strategy properly.America gets ALOT more ships plus it bumps up their war readiness(which gives them more mpps).The one real good thing about taking Spain is that once Gibralter falls then The Allies supply in Africa has the same chance of being effected as the Axis. Yes Germany needs quite a few troops for garrison duty. yes never go into Russia weak.All that does is get their war industry going and then you have problems If you want(or when or if you are ever up to it)I will play you and help you along(im from British Columbia).

Iron Ranger does that trick(attacking partisans with air and not occupying the hex)work in P.D.E.OR w.A.W.In Russia when you kill the Partisans the hex goes back to Axis if its behind Axis lines?

Hey Gunhawk,you ever play Third Reich or Squad Leader?

The good thing about P.D.E.is that as the Germans you start really eraly in 1939 so it opens ALOT more opportunities than in W.a.W.It also fun to tell the Russians to drop dead and not honor the non-aggression pact. The other games not on W.a.W.are fun.

As far as the Russians go,usually you can lure them into a trap and wipe them all out.Knowing how to set these traps takes time.My suggestion to you is just keep playing and believe once you figure it out(you will)the A.I.(especially on beginner)will be easy to defeat. I will give you one piece of advice and thats concentrate your forces at the point of attack.Never try to be strong everwhere because you cant.

One other thing about Third Reich that imho should be in SC is the chance for Major countrys to counter-attack after their last Capital has been siezed and they are going to surrender.This prevents the attacker form just sending in his Para.to drop in the Capital and have the defender giveup without a chamce to take the Capital back.I know their is a random chance that the defending country maynot surrender the turn they loose their last Capital but in Third Reich there is no doubt the defender gets a chance to retake their capital.If the attacking unit cant trace a normal supply then if its defeated its gone permanently from the game.This forces the attacker away from what normally would be a suicide attack.it would also make it tougher for Germany to take England in SC.

I agree the Poles didnt setup well in reality but believe me anything was better than what I had. In Third Reich when you declare war on any Minor the defender gets to setup the troops.If its against the A.I.(which is one of the worst there is)it sets them up.If you are P.B.E.M.then the attacker sets up the minor that makes sense.Also the major countries are setup manually if you choose to do so.There is an option to allow quick setup(historical).

Wushuki if your going to buy just one,buy P.D.E.

scottsmm,what im suggesting works great in Third Reich.It would work here fine, As far as being attacked by a maniac(it was quite obvious Hitler wasnt going to stop until he was stopped).The Poles setup better in reality then they did for me. Russia knew months in advance(right down to the date and time,from the book:What Stalin Knew) that they were going to get attacked,but because of Stalins stupidity they setup to get wiped up.We are in command.We dont have to make those mistakes and neither should the Minors have to.They will still get defeated but atleast they will force the attacker to use more than they would like.

Imho it would make alot more sense to have the attacker setup the Minor being attacked.(thats how it is in Third Reich & it works fine)It is expected the attacker would use common sense and position the Minor troops best suited for defence of their country.As it is now(like the game im playing against MYJ)the Poles may as well not even deployed.He basicly took Poland in one turn.

Wushuki I have seen happen to the Allies,but ive never experienced it as Germany.

Every game ive ever knocked England out of the war(depending on German losses in the attack)ive never lost.The Allies(Americans)can no longer bomb or threaten France.They cant spot to see how well Europe is guarded.They really cant protect the Murmansk convoy route.Germany will be getting about 300 plus mpps per turn(in 1940 which will allow them to have a quite substantial army by 1941).Italy and Germany combined will get as much or if not more than the Allies(as Russian cities fall to the German attack they will recieve more and Russia less).Americas tiny navy will be no match for 8 plus subs and whatever surface ships survive the attack on England(not to mention the Italian navy).With England gone Germany only has to take Leningrad,Moscow,Stalingrad(which forces Russia to stand and fight and will end in their demise) and Russia will surrender.Germany can quite often achieve those goals with England in the game

scottsmm if you knock England out of the war its over for the Allies.

scottsmm im refering to P.D.E.not W.a.W.Believe me you can take ALL of Africa by early 1940.France is gone in 1939,no problem.By 1941 the Germans WILL have a big army and its concentrated against Russia.The Germans could also choose to attack Turkey in 1940 and open up two routes of attack against Russia.Yes this will get alot of countries mad but it sure would stretch Russia.

scottsmm you take Alexandria BEFORE attacking England,this prevents the Brits.from doing just what you said. If the Axis have taken all of England out of the war and depending if the British defended England(that usually means they have lost alot)Alexandria usually doesnt present much of a problem then.

Taking Africa also depends on how you have Brtains surrender setup.If the British capital isnt moving to Canada then Africa takes on a whole new importance.Since Alexandria is the last capital the Germans need to defeat England then Africa becomes ALOT more attractive.

P.D.E.and W.a.W. imho are better games in that there is a little more realism and you will notice the very VITAL importance of railroads and the railheads like they really were.I think if you try them you will really enjoy them. Chesster in P.D.E. and W.a.W.when the Axis take Norway then they get 3 free German Corps at strength 3 to garrison Norway. As far as taking Malta goes,what you do is bomb and or bombard the port to zero(so he cant re-supply the unit)then just start shooting at it.You will eventually kill the unit.If you choose to use your Italian ships be carefull of the British navy. You dont need Malta(it does make it easier and it removes a good spotting position for Allied planes latter on in the war)to take Africa.Just make sure you have an H.Q.with the troops.

Remember we all have the same atvantage/disatvantage this rapid replacement and operating offers.

One thing about Norway if the Axis dont take it the Allies(human player)might.The reason being is then they can go after Swedens mpps that are sent to Germany by either bombing or by an actual attack plus it opens the whole of east Germany to an Allied attack eventually. Depends on what version of SC2 you are playing the politcal consequences the Brits.suffer of they attack Norway.(I know in P.D.E.if the Brits attack Norway before America enters its bad).

Thats true aboUt SC in that the simpicity of play makes it so much fun. I think your right scottsmm in that you would need a whole new game system if you are going to start making major changes. The only game I ever played that was realistic to the point of almost to much realism(once I got the hang of it then it was probably the best game I ever played as far as realism goes)was Squad Leader.There is no hope of creating ANY strategic WW2 game that indepth. I will say that imho Third Reich rivals the SC series but its biggest downfall was the lack of support and the bugs in the game itself.I have never played any game that even comes close to the support that the SC team offfers.I keep hoping someday Hubert will get the rights to Third Reich and make it the game it truely could be.

Yep,Just Oslo.I think there is about a 1% chance that Norway will keep fighting if Germany takes Oslo.

scottsmm some of these turns represent 1 week and some(in the fall and winter)equal 1 month?So in one way being able to bring a unit back to strength sort of makes sense.I guess if you start adding in overall men available(Germany was dumb in that she really didnt start using women for manufacturing untill much latter in the war)then yes George40 is right.

George40 its not a bad idea but like scottsmm said SC2 is based partly on simplicity and fun to play.Also by doing that you will also start to cut back somewhat on the overall combat because it would take a unit so long to get back to any fighting strength.Also with the strength of airfleets you could just pound a bunch of enemy units down and then just roll right over them.Could prove real trouble for Russia.

Kuniworth what your doing with the OOB is right.I wouldnt change anything.Remember(as you also know)the Germans were WAY outgunned when they attacked Russia.The main reason why they did so well is because the Russians did like you said got most of their mech.troops wiped out right away(Germanys command structure was WAY better).If the Russians had also been commanded properly I doubt weather Germany would have even made it nearly as far as they did. I guess the problem with any WW2 game is hindsight.The Allied player knows not to make these mistakes and with the vastly superior numbers and if all things are set historically they should never loose.That of course would be no fun,so for you and all the rest of you game designers to come up with such fabulous and fun games and make them winnable for both sides but still not be way to far off the historical mark is a great achievement.