Canada Guy

Steve, After what I have read, I would agree with your statements. The question though is, are there factors within CMRT that make a player want to follow Soviet doctrine to be successful - like the Italians with some sort of differences that really detrimentally effect your style of play if you try to play them as you would the others - or are the Soviets modeled like the Germans or the Yanks without national characteristics and so it is up to the player to try to simulate Soviet doctrine? The Italians are a good example of this. They do make for a different style of play, not very different from the other powers but you do notice a slightly different playing style because of their tactical organization. Not being able to split the squads makes this difference even more noticeable and their leadership structure adds to this.

One of favourite scenarios from CMBB was a Hungarian vs Romanian battle around a church ( if I remember correctly) with some Germans coming in late to stabilize the area. I think it was called "Battle of Minors" or something. It was a great scenario and put you in an area where most of us never play. Hungarian vs Romanian. If I had to choose, I would still choose the Finns though but it would be great to try out the Italians vs the Russians at some point also.

I also never noticed it before the patch. Question: is there a way to control the action spots of a squad? Some large squad have 2 or even 3 action spots. When I have my unit move, not all the acts spots end up where I want them (and this was before this problem was discovered). Is there any way to control or manipulate the action spots (like a cntrl key that exists in some games e.g. Simcity where you hold it down and it changes the final action spots by moving the mouse)? There are some instances where I want all 3 action spots to be in a straight line but it is usually 2 up and one down. Annoying as I then have to split the squad into its parts and then I can get each to line up properly.

I know the the +2 is good to have but is a conscript +2 the same as a veteran +2 or is the conscript +2 the equivalent of a normal leader +0? I am unsure of the interaction between the bonuses and experience and if they act together or are the +2 providing the exact same bonus irrespective of experience.

I was wondering if routing will make a comeback? I do not see surrendering as being the standard option for German troops on the Eastern front in 1944-45. I especially do not see it as an option for SS troops or for that matter some of the Soviet troops at this time of the campaign. Will routing return or will we see a lot more last-stands? (as the option was usually death and not living out the rest of the war in a western front pow camp for allies or axis)

There is also a big difference between leadership & authority. Give a commissar a uniform and they have all the authority they can handle but that does not mean that they are providing leadership. The current US army uses the idea of Be-Know-Go with its emphasis on allowing subordinate troops to solve their own problems and the leader acting as facilitator. I think this was in a similar vein as the Germans. Quality over quantity. The soviets looked at this more as authority, especially in the early years. I say this so you do this. If i do not say it, you do not do it. Very different leadership styles. I am not sure upon which theory or how the commonwealth or the US trained their leaders in WWII but I think that this is hard to model in CMBN. The Italians seem to have some leadership flavour but the Brits, US & Germans all see a little leadership generic. I think there were national differences & I think it should be reflected in the game (or if it is, it is all hidden behind the scenes without letting us know) there was different leadership styles between the Germans and soviets as well (with this changing for both as the war went on) but how do you reflect this without either something like a command delay or creating inherent national characteristics?

Ha Ha. Though I did have some fun with the Bundeswehr equipment in CMSF. I just never found a comparable magazine with such slick production values after it folded. Too bad.

Interesting as I have not been able to find it for a long time. Also interesting is that they now only sell issues 1 and 2 and make no mention of 3-5 which I have. Perhaps they just went out of business.

What ever happened to the German War Machine magazine? I had bought all their issues (5 in total) and then they disappeared. In fact, they sent me 3 copies of issue #5 and that was it. It had some great photos, a great layout and I tried to refer to it when building some scenarios for CMx2. Not even sure about where they were located but they magazine was very slick. There website also totally disappeared. I am not sure if I can talk about another product by another company but a defunct magazine closely linked to CMx2 subject matter seemed appropriate

Sergei, This is sort of a variation of what I had suggested before but with further refinement which I like. I also agree with SlySniper. It is a C&C problem but command delay was a way of representing that problem. I am in favour of command delays because I think that modeling the actual problem (restrictive tactical flexibility and C&C for differently trained armies at different periods of the war) may be harder to model. Delays were a cheap and easy way to model something that may take BF months to figure out a good replacement system. If I had my druthers though, I would like to see something akin to the Command points suggested which would be closer to the actual problem. Conscripts have 2 CP, Green 3CP . . . up to Elite with 7 CP plus additional CPs for being in contact with a leader. Yes, a bit gamey but perhaps better than command delays. The suggestion to not issue commands to reflect this is sort of disingenuous as you play to the rules of the system with scenarios built using those rules. Even if it was toggleable, I would use it but I am not going to start using improvised rules inside a game . Even more difficult when playing against an opponent.

Stikkypixie, I do agree with you but I am thinking more of the feel than what is actually happening. I am thinking more of the ends and not the means. I still believe that conscript troops should not be able to act out complex orders and to do them instantaneously. Telling an elite unit to do something, they should do it. Telling a conscript unit to do it should take more time and should be simpler instructions. E.g. I do not think conscripts should be able to quick move as that is simulating fire and movement. Perhaps have them move or fire but not be able to do both. Being in C&C should alter this for the better assuming you have a competent commander. One idea would be to have a count of orders you can give a unit. E.g. You could give a conscript unit 2 orders (so they could run towards the nearest wall for cover or move towns a location and perhaps fire at that location) a in C&C would allow another order (+1 for a total of 3) elite units may have 6 and in C&C 7. So, this would allow for limited movement to save yourself but would only allow average to elite units to carry out some crazy commands. Yes, the Italians do feel different from other nations and I liked that there was some nationality distinction. Now we just need some experience/training distinction.

sburke & MikeyD I was just using the 1941 Soviet troops as an example but you could easily say that about the newly minted 1945 German troops being thrown into the line. I am not sure how you would model tactical rigidity. The command delay was a means to an end but while not a perfect one, it did make you think about things more. I.e. Having reserves near the back of the map as your units in the thick of things would not react fast enough. Those 120 second command delays were a real headache to deal with. You do have options to model this type of rigidity Command Delays Removing allowable actions (e.g. no assault with green troops, just move or fast for conscripts) No splitting of squads Units always want to move towards commanders if out of command (now I am just throwing out some ideas) Conscript Units no longer show up if they are outside of command control (like in Iron mode but with the possibility of appearing again You can only provide orders for them once every two minutes instead of immediately (RT) or each minute (WEGO)

Stikkypixie, I also agree that having German troops react instantaneously would also be unrealistic. The Germans though did have a forward thinking tactical doctrine that did allow for more tactical flexibility than most armies especially in the 1940-1943 timeframe or for those units that went through their training in those years. It just would feel not quite right to see my conscript t-34 trundle off on a shoot and scoot or do whatever I tell them to immediately. I am warming to the idea of limiting the action buttons for units with low experience. And maybe throw in something extra for inexperienced tank crews out of contact and no radio. While tactical training may alleviate this somewhat in early German units, they should also experience this later in the war. It just may not be as pronounced.

Sburke, What Michael and I were referring to were the time delays that units with low training had to wait until they carried out your orders in CMBB - if you wanted a conscript tank going from a to b, then you have to wait 120 seconds before it will start to move - all very tactical.it made it feel as if you could not just order conscript/green troops around the board without consequences or delays. There were also tactical training seen in the early/mid German army where they had more initiative and soviet troops did not. We need something to mimic this feeling of less control as I would not like to see a soviet conscript tank outside of leader contact And without a radio moving with the same freedom as I would expect a late war t-85 with A veteran crew. It would not feel right. While the command delay was not perfect, it was better than nothing and right now we do not seem to have anything comparable. I recall Steve saying that BF did not like the command delay but they were looking into something else to provide the same feel of leading differently experienced troops.

Some of my fondest memories are of CMBB. I am looking forward to some of the larger scenarios being converted to CM:Bag. A few questions: How soon before a family release is a dedicated forum page created? I have forgotten how soon the CMFI page was created but since it was a surprise announcement, I had thought BF had held off as much as possible. Since we know about CM:Bag, I would expect in the next month (if Steve's comment about "real Soon" actually does mean real soon). I was also wondering if v3.0 is what we are striving for or after 3.0 is released, there will be plans for a 4.0 about a year or two later? Is this an iterative process? I am hoping for something that mimics the command delay in CMBB. Yes, a bit gamey but it really did make you feel you had much less control over your conscript/green troops/tanks and that they were a different breed to command. I would like to see something like that for units out of contact with their leaders. Something to make the differentiation amongst quality really felt. Perhaps no assault, no ambush, no covered arcs for conscripts – they just shoot, move and fast move. Green would have more options. In leader contact, the more options. I really want to see something that prohibits green/conscript Russian tanks without Radios and without leader contact to feel like they should. You should not be able to command them as you would a veteran in the same situation. If they both respond as quickly and with all options, then we are missing something. I am sure Steve/Charles/Phil et al. will think of something. If not, please bring back an option for command delay.

I also thought that both having a SSD or using 64 bits did not affect the game at all in terms of performance. I at least have seen nothing improved for CM by having an SSD (though mine may not be perfectly configured so am not sure if some settings could improve performance).

Before I accidentally deleted all my mods I thought I had a file with only the sound of birds/insects and the occasional dog but without any sounds of battle. I really liked this one as it was quite peaceful and soothing. You know you have had a bad day when you start CMBN only for the sound of the birds.

I like the idea of an ambush command but can someone explain to me what they mean by a SKIRMISH LINE command?

What about just throwing in some real pictures? It will lead to greater variety but it also may just be one big pain the in butt.

altipueri It happened once I upgraded to 8.1. Screwed up many a things on my computer. I plan to get it fixed as soon as my class is finished in December. I have a ticket but don't want to distract myself too much. Chudacabra I wish this was at the University of Saskatchewan as it would have saved me a tosh load of money. No, unfortunately I am doing my entire degree on-line through AMU/APU. Good school and enjoyable so far but I may switch to the University of Saskatchewan once I have completed enough classes and just do the thesis here. UofT and York are good schools as is the U of Sask but I find most Canadian institutions very staid and to get the critical mass this would need to be on-line. Not too many prairie boys want to study WWII in depth. At least not enough to offer a full program with specialized profs.

John, I actually liked TACOPS and was it not a retired Colonel that was programming it? That was a long time ago on a very (now) obsolete Mac. For Modern Tactical Thought, I never did check the class requirements so perhaps CMSF will be included. I cannot register though in the Eastern Front class yet though as my copies of CMBB do not work on my computer. I will have to wait at least until Bagration comes out.

My wife has an MBA and I think they are restricted to one per household.

Will the patch also fix the Windows 8.1 problem or is that a different process? I submitted a ticket but will not follow up if it is addressed in this patch.

Myself, I am going towards an MA in Military Studies (Major - Strategic leadership - which is why I am such crap at tactical CMx2). I have one elective slot though and was thinking of either WWII on the Eastern Front that is actually part of their MA degree in Military History or a class entitled Modern Tactical Thought . I had thought about the Military History degree myself as I did a BA in History/Political Studies but focused on China/Japan. The Military History list of classes actually looks very good. Thought I would go for something different this time round though. Was even thinking about Intelligence Studies as they also have an MA degree but that may be too far off of what I had previously studied. I just need the MA for my job but not any specific degree. Strategic Leadership though sounded as close to something a large organization wants. Russian tank battles and spies are harder to justify, but probably more my cup of tea.

edited for double post