Mr. Tittles

sPzAbt 504 spent the rest of the war in Italy. The battalion was rebuilt with a full three company organization, wit additional personnel from PzAbt. 18. The unit trained in Germany, and when returned to Italy, it was assigned to support 17th SS PzGren. Div. Goetz Von Berlichingen. Its first action in Italy was in support of the 362nd Inf. Div. in the containment of the Allied advance up the Italian coast following the Anzio landing. sPzAbt 504 saw a great deal of action in the Italian campaign, including the Arno river campaign and the defense of northern Italy. In 1944, in the Vienna area, sPzAbt 504 was partly re-equipped with Tiger II Ausf Bs. The battalion surrendered at the end of the war, along with other German units in Italy.

[ December 04, 2003, 08:02 PM: Message edited by: Mr. Tittles ]

Ive noticed a reluctance to use PF. Even when not in buildings. Units will use grenades/bundles first it seems.

I believe he was initially in some bad state but rallied but continued his crawling. I was able to halt him and give him a more rational move.

In LOD for a German unit, I saw a sneak retreat that went clear through the town across the river. It ignored multiple close buildings, etc. [ November 30, 2003, 09:08 PM: Message edited by: Mr. Tittles ]

The right part of that picture is the back of the tank.. http://onwar.com/tanks/germany/plans/tiger1.gif [ November 30, 2003, 06:00 PM: Message edited by: Mr. Tittles ]

I notice that units fired upon, even in the open, tend to have pinning and sneaking as results more often than CMBB. What I wonder is, if I give a unit a command to advance on a house, and it recieves fire; do I have the control to modify what it does next? By that, I mean if they decide to hit the ground and crawl towards different cover (sneak), should I be able to modify where they sneak to? Should there be a delay? Must they be in Command control? Should pinned units have more substantial delays? Should I have the ability to give them precise fire orders? Maybe they should decide for themselves who to fire at?

In my case, there were German half squads fighting within meters of the briefly 'captured' unit. The nearest US unit was pinned and in a house 100 Meters away. In other words, he attempted to surrender but was never really captured. His trauma was not so much that he did not return to good order. But he had no weapons. Clearly, not realistic.

This pic shows that the rear vents had a slant to them. Its entirely possible that a Tiger being attacked from the air from behind could catch a MG bullet that would not only hole the radiator but also hit the fuel cell! In reality, even an aircraft with 8 MGs can not get the bullet strikes on the tank for more than a brief instance. Most tank tracks are actually under the armored envelope when attacked from the air. It would be just as likely for a ground mounted HMG than a plane mounted HMG to knock a track off.

This pic shows that the tiger fuel cell was behind the radiator. The air would be drawn in above the fuel cells and through the radiator and out the back vented plate.

Could have been briefly captured. But not more than a moment and there were no close proximity US troops nearby. In other word, he should have picked up his own weapons if he changed his mind. I have seen whole HMG crews do this but I did not notice if they were unarmed afterwards.

If the radiator got holed, those vents would be pouring steam out. Giving away the tanks position. It would not take vey long to overheat. Depending on ambient and engine temp, it could be a few minutes. Air has to come in as well as out. So those vents were the output of the fans, where did the air come in?

When leading a moving vehicle, the Panther round would also have the edge. Its round gets there 3/10ths of a second quicker.

Excellent scenario. S P O I L E R I think the US should have 105mm arty and the the Germans 81mm FO with an on board 81mm.

I noticed an unarmed company HQ in the game. He was low on ammo but then went 'unarmed'? Is this new?

The smallest fragment getting in those louvers would hole the radiator. Once the coolant system is 'popped', the engine would overheat. The V12 had cylinders that were extremely close by the way. Overheating would be a sure way to crack the block.

I think Panther projectiles have an extra driving band so they may not have been common to other types. But the complete fixed rounds would not be usable anyway in any other gun. A German 1944 Panzer division would have: 1. 75L70 (Panther and JagdPanzerIVL70) 2. 75L48(PanzerIV and StuG and JagdPanzerL48) 3. 75L24(halftrack, AC and possibly PanzerIIIN) 4. 75L46 (antitank guns, towed and perhaps SP) This means supply has to handle AP, HE and special ammo for each of these groups. If the Panzer division had captured vehicles or Tigers, then they would also need to supply these 'groups'. I wonder how much 'reloading' may have been going on. Supposedly, the Germans did not discard spent tank cartridges. If they reloaded, then they would need a way to insure that the brass was still good (or could be repaired/shaped), powder, caps and, of course, shells. I would guess that such a function would take place at a remote depot and not within a division. [ November 29, 2003, 11:22 AM: Message edited by: Mr. Tittles ]

If it surrendered, and no one on your side had an LOS to it, it could vanish.

Korsun Pocket

Havent read the whole thread but getting the armor to button up is vital. Using arty to botton them up also adds dust which blinds them. Use HMG to button up several close tanks. Give a covered arc to the MG that encompasses all the tanks that are bunched up. Quick short bursts will get the hatches clanking. The MG will then cease fire on its own. If the gun gets spotted, and is in a good order, give him a hide order and then go to work on all those who are spotting him. A good HQ with stealth always helps.

I think I have read in 'Death Traps' and other sources that there is an angle where AP rounds will all fail (if they are not so massive compared to the armor that they cave in the structure). Its 20 degrees or so. From what I understand, the AP has to get its pointed front into the armor. If the AP shot only makes contact along the side of the armor along its ogive part, then it will not start to 'dig-in'. So armor angled at 30 degrees that has an additional side angle from shots coming non-strait on are very hard to defeat. So would extremely sloped armor like the stugs above the driver (its like 22 degrees or something). When the stugs reinforced this area with concrete, the concrete might actually act as a lubricant rolling under the sliding round. I have read of one account of a AP strike on this area. the round slid to the top edge, bounced up over the commander and landed, spent, next to his cupola. I would have to guess that Panzer/PAK and StuG schools would stress 'orthoganal' shooting. Trying to get as dead on a shot as possible. The T34, even if its hull/glacis was so indefeatable, would deflect the rounds upward into the overhanging turret.

I think such a thing would be in the realm of CMII. Since the demo for CMAK is out, it may possibly be CMII time. I am guessing but would venture that the game resolves HE effects through weight of shell and HE payload and HE type. Since arty is generic and there is no range consideration (and descent angle). Blast value are something different again. They are probably a simpler plug-in formula. As far as I know, no one knows how either the game resolves HE or generates blast numbers.

In any case, the Spanish (IF we can trust those Spaniards???) website seems to show that using charge 5 and 6 are supersonic at the muzzle. Using these charges at ranges described in the FO's account would support the assertion that they recipients would not hear it coming. Not to beat a dead horse but human reaction time, being what it is, would need 0.4 seconds to start doing something EVEN if the shell was sub-sonic. Lets suppose a short barrelled IG pops a round at you. You hear 'BOOM' (guns report) but the 'CRASH' (shell detonation) is only lagging by 0.5 seconds. You had a whole tenth of a second to respond and take appropriate action. Was it enough time to even get a proper pucker factored? This is all assuming that it is the only event you can focus on.

http://www.panzertruppen.org/heer/artilleria/campana/lefh18.html 105mm German Howitzer

http://www.europa1939.com/whermacht/artilleria/campana/sfh18.html Here's a good site about 15 cm german howitzer. Its in Spanish. An interesting note is one shell had three options (my spanish is rusty but maybe someone can help us), large delay, small delay and zero delay (PD).