SeaMonkey

First of all, the Germans get 400 MPPs, 100 for 4 turns, absolutely unnecessary as I'm almost to Leningrad, Moscow, and Rostov when the thing fires. The early invasion is enough of an advantage, almost unstoppable if started by Sept. 1940. Now that the Germans have been through the first winter(40-41) deep into USSR, don't you think that having the severe winter hit in 41-42 doesn't give them credit for being a little more prepared. Besides if I'm invading in the Autumn, planning would dictate I would issue the proper equipment for a Winter campaign. I think that in the event of an early Barbarossa these two events would offset, Germans get 400 MPPs and they reinforce their units losses for severe Winter. Not really an issue as its kind of a wash, just seems a bit unrealistic.

Hey Nup, wanted you to know that the "Barbarossa" decision event still fires with the early invasion. Also the winter script for Axis force decimation also is implimented. Feeling is they're both unnecessary on an early invasion of USSR.

Thing about it Minty is Rambo can't afford any mistakes against the Allies. He's like a real good football team that beats themselves, gets behind and then starts to gamble, its his nature. Since JG is new at Global though, his conservative play might allow the Axis to reach critical mass and Jon knows the mechanics of SC defense, it will be a struggle for Jolly to make the comeback. This will be a good match.

That puts us in "what if" territory crispy. An interesting premise, no doubt, perhaps a continuation of hostilities is in order? I know there is some resistance to the point system, but wars have always been about resource gathering which includes population control. An extention could bring in other parts of the globe that see very little action, but I think the historical crowd would be unsupportive. Maybe after the old campaigns have lost their novelty.

Alright Jon, what's it going to be, Sealion? Better be careful with that one, a real game changer. How about that Autumn Barbarossa, seems you've done the prelims to pull it off. Better yet, remember the Operation Sphinx I showed you?

Yeah Al, life's a beach, but someone has comb the trash out of the sand, I'll help. Anyway, I stopped playing your mod when a Chinese HQ hold up in a mountain town resisted every form of IJN / IJA attack and dealt out such losses that the whole war planning for the Japanese expansion was completely undermined.:eek: Imagine, one Chinese HQ held off the entire WW2 Japanese war machine. Last time I looked, he was still there, the city had been bombed down to zero for numerous turns, he was still 10 strength and had a full chest of experience medals.:mad:

When your playing against the AI this denotes the extra experience you gave them in the scenario set up. You choose intermediate +1, then one star is filled in, +2 experience, 2 stars filled in. SC allows you additional versatility to customize the AI prowess with the level of play(more units, MPPs) and / or experience. In essence the AI could, never seen it though, have a 7 experience unit.

Got to admit the game is compelling, JG a worthy adversary, perhaps nearer to winter. I just never seem to be able to consistently dedicate time to the game and I feel my opponents aren't afforded the consideration of expeditious play which of course causes me undue anxiety. Its the "SeaMonkey" dilemma. Anyway...since logistical management usually dictates the victor, I'm sure I would go down in flames at the hands of Jolly. We'll see what the future brings, there's always a glint of SC in the corner of my eye. You've got a handle on it Jon, those Tank groups with the powerful double strikes, just don't forget their accompanying screen, those corps(AT units in the mods) with mobility and high AT levels to vanquish the opponents armor at lesser cost. Its Rommel's MO, TAC is just icing for the fair weather hammer when you have the initiative.

Planes not carrying torpedoes or bombs are pretty ineffective against the armor of battleships, all they can do is strafe and use cannon.

OK Rambo, I'm going to let you in on a diversion I've developed. Go all out in the west, do not wait for good weather, attack, attack, attack, but don't be foolish at extending your forces, play conservative. Plan for Sealion from day one, but be wary of the early Barbarossa variant. As soon as the French surrender is pending, op most of the big pieces other than garrisons and air to the east(unless Sealion presents itself), just like you did in the west and do the Autumn 40 Barbarossa while planning for the big push first good weather turn of 1941. The weather is better in the west for flying than in the east, so you can keep Sealion on the back burner, just in case Don't respect Molotov-Ribbentrop pact, you'll be in awesome shape for the Spring-Summer push because you've had all winter of 40, 41 to position your forces and soften the Soviets. The east will be over early. Oh yeah put a chit in infrastructure.

Duck SO...incoming! Who won? From my OP it looks like the SOcialists.

This is where a point system would keep players and observers updated as far as where the advantage lies from turn to turn. Panther Games has a victory meter that changes as the game progresses.

In a way you're right SO, strategies are similar but the mechanics of prosecution are different game to game. As Axis you make the early major decisions, Sealion or blockade, Spain, Africa, delay or not Barbarossa, China or the SRA and from there its kind of wide open after that, you take what the Allies give. The Allies have less scripted strategies as they are reactive, dependent upon Axis moves as to where their inclinations unfold, but there are similar theaters of combat that would be considered the conservative moves. Earlier I believe, Minty mentioned "Rising Sun Victorious" and I'll add "Hitler's War" to books that investigate possible viable Axis strategical deviations. I like both books and many times I'll a take a page out of the lesson and see if I can pull it off in a game of SC, its a most instructive historical experiment, always interesting.

How about you guys do Nupremal's mod for a different perspective. The weather isn't near as rough, more game.

I know exactly what your talking about xwood, many times in games, I or my opponent has made an obvious choice that diverts from the conservative line of action just to see where it leads. Sometimes it leads to profound results, sometimes one of us in the obvious superior position will reciprocate with a likewise deviation from the "right" move just to even things up. No doubt it definitely enhances the fun factor especially when you've mastered all the right moves for victory from the many replays of the official scenarios. That's one reason why I like to play my experienced opponents in a mod that neither one of us has sampled. Its all about the fun.

Further to this supposed problem of representing reality is that again, in the time frame of a SC turn, does anyone think that an air organization wouldn't immediately evacuate their facilities when faced with an imminent ground attack? I propose that an air unit that is moved next to by an enemy unit should automatically relocate to an adjacent tile of the most closely located friendly town/city/port unless the owning player has selected the "defend" option. Yeah I know...a bit more micro-management....but just a bit.

Most excellent suggestion xwood. Big Al has kind of a mechanism like this in his mod, where the target is allowed to evade the attack, it simulates the reality of imperfect conditions for combat resolution and think it works quite well. Now in SC where you have turns that are weeks long, sometimes months, it seems highly unrealistic that there wouldn't be a window of opportunity to conduct air strikes in that time frame albeit they may be unproductive, hence the evasion notification. Now you've created yet another consideration for the players to contemplate. Do I reinforce, upgrade my air units or sorti them in a possible effective strike knowing that the chances are much hindered than when in good weather conditions. I also want to state that I think air units shouldn't be completely grounded during bad weather conditions and have to use the operate function to avoid being involved in enemy ground force attacks.

OK Hubert, like the title says, time to give us a little more flexibility with the editor. I know this is a problem for the AI, but this is mostly for our modders in a human vs human mode. We have an excellent community of customizing developers and I want to see them given the tools to take SC to the next level. Allow customization of research categories and creation of upgrade parameters for the SC units. There are three slots per unit that our modders need full access to. They name the upgrades and of course the combat target values connected to those upgrades. In the research model that drives the unit upgrades they need the ability to name and create the parameters of the upgrades. These research areas need to be connected to more than one research at a time where a breakthrough can impact more than a single research category, say a percent chance. In short, our SC modders should be able to create a research tree.

I'm watching Nup! Just to see what strategies you use for when we play.

Nupremal's mod works well that way Big Al, Italy as German minor and China as major, just make the upgrades combat enhancement at 0.5 per level for minors.

Rambo, I have to go with Nupremal's mod. At first, the shear scale of the thing was somewhat intimidating, but as I got used to the deployments, familiarized myself with the map the whole scenario started to grow on me. Currently, I believe that the number of viable strategies available to both players is the most numerous of any SC scenario I have ever played, but I've not played them all! The scope of the map allows for much flexibility in maneuvering, many avenues for attacks which culminates in a defense that must readily be prepared to adjust, motorization is a huge advantage. The fact that Kurt continues to improve an already excellent platform for wargaming serves as a credit to his commitment....and I do admire commitment as Hubert has seen through to dedicate his talents as a designer to creating such a masterpiece as SC is. You all must know, I've been here a long time as a forum poster, during that time I have tried some other excellent wargames, but somehow they all seem lacking in comparison to SC, not that SC is perfect, but there is something about SC that is uniquely attractive. We all have out opinions about what that is, that magic that SC has, but for me it was the grand strategic scale and Hubert Cater, who listened and experimented, tweaked and molded, a dash of this, a sprinkle of that and somehow saw through the cloud of ideas to get this thing right. It was funny...I kind of realized that when I was posting about the new SC3 features, how the subtleties of SC has actually captured alot of what I was suggesting in its own abstract way. So why waste any more time, I thought, its time to play this creation, and playing I am.

Just wanted you to know Nup, an 8 strength French BB took out a 4 strength Panzer Group along the Dutch coast in one of my test games. Seems a bit excessive for a shore bombardment, IMO.

Astute observation Xwood, about the "natural chaos", ....indeed...those with faith sometimes find things just seem to work out for the best.

Gentlemen, this is about "friction", Murphy's Law, things happen, operational risks and hazards, "best laid plans", it is realistic. You just never know when a human will surprise you, improvise and innovate a weapons platform to cause damage to an attacker, to oneself, its the natural chaos of battle, leave it, "as is".

I don't care about accurate names, just make sure there are no mechanical changes for the next 3 months. So what's different in 1.13 that's not in the current version 1.10 I'm playing, anything significant?