SeaMonkey

Remember guys these AFs and SBs of SC are multi-tasked multi type aircraft representations, flying many different sorties and mission types during a SC game turn. Now think about it Edwin, if you were doing long range reconnaissance, which aircraft type would you choose? Which aircraft type could carry multi cameras, sensors and stay aloft for a longer period of time? Which aircraft type can fly at higher altitudes so as to be less detectable?

This is a good point Bill. Something which we should possibly discuss with an eye toward an army-corps interchangeable relationship, ie. the ability to breakdown and recombine. In MPPs an army costs the same as 2 corps. Your example shows the need of this relationship and the ability of Germany to "outdistant" itself in conquest. As Germany spreads its controlling wings throughout Europe it will become more difficult to hold a vast empire due to the force pool limitation. The Axis player will have to pay careful attention to the allocation of its garrisoning forces adding more variabilty to replay features of SC2. Has a militia unit been contemplated as a possibility? Will the force pool limit be restricted by the number of units or the accumulation of the strength of all the units. Example: does a 9 strength Inf army have the same force pool consideration as 3 three strength Inf. armies?

And for you Edwin: Junkers Ju 88A-4 (1938-1940) range 1700 miles Vickers Wellington IC (1938) 2550 miles Boeing Flying Fortress B-17F (1940-1942) 3800 miles Savoia-Marchetti SM79-1 (1937) 1180 miles Ilyushin II-4 DB-3F (1938-1940) 2359 miles Mitsibushi Ki-21-IIa/b Sally (1938-1941) 1700 miles The Junkers, SM79, Vickers, and the Ilyushin were considered medium bombers. There are many others, but these were the earlier models with the greatest production.

Well since you brought it up Shaka: Me 262-1a (1944) range 525 miles Gloster Meteor MkIII (1944) 1340 miles That's the only jets of any consequence for WW2.

Aptly taken guys. Let me be the first in this thread to offer a great heaping of gratitude for the information you all have divulged, be it accurate or not, to us so far. Your excitement is infectuous and here's toasting (tapping beer can on monitor) that SC2 is an outstanding success. Thanks Dave, Bill and HC.

From the WW2 encyclopedia: Bf 109E/G models(1937-1942) range 410/525 miles Hawker Hurricane Mk1/MkIIc (1937-1940) 525/920 miles Curtiss Warhawk IA P-40E (1939-1942) 850 miles Lockheed Lightening P-38G/L (1941-1943) 1400/2250 miles North American Mustang P-51B/C-D (1942-1944)2200/2100 miles remember they are supposed to make the return trip so all ranges /2 for SC application. I'm not sure if this includes weapon loads but I believe this is for fighter use only (mgs and cannon), although the P-40E did have 500 lb bomb load max. qualifier. Also I'm sure this doesn't include any extraneous activity (dogfights/strafing, etc.), it is presented as the maximum possible under ideal conditions (weather/ceiling/normal payloads). There are other models but these represent a cross section of the most abundant models produced.

Thanks ev for the recognition, but thank yourself and the rest of the forum. It is the forum environment which prompts ideas and the willingness of the designer to incorporate them that propagates a continuous emanation of logic. Consequently this is a team effort. I thank you all.

Blashy, I understand that the anal retentive of our group will do the calculations down to the minutess details. But this feature is about calculations in your head, the "feel" of the game. I for one play wargames by feel. Now my investment portfolio is calculated to detail. The idea is to introduce so many "mind" possibilities to SC as to "never" have repetitious play. Not to the point of indecision or confusion but to create a great variability to the outcome of your actions. All you have to do with this feature is to remember the farther you move your unit the more readiness it loses(terrain, weather, enemy considerations). When I paddle out I don't calculate how many waves I'm going to catch with my remaining energy. But if the surf is big then I may use a pier or jetty to help me get outside.

"save a lot of unneseccary clicking of the mouse." "ie after clicking on the toggle button" Kyboche, look what you wrote.

OK ev I'm in agreement with most of this with some additional "food for thought". Remember we are talking one week to one month turns. Is 50 miles to far to move into enemy territory and then recover disruption in one week/one month time period and deploy for assault? How about a 100 miles? I agree with friendly unit prior movement negating ZoCs. Further, I believe the level of disruption(loss of readiness)should also be a function of how far a unit moved in that turn, ie. less use of APs = lower loss of readiness. Mech units should suffer less readiness loss when moving into enemy territory, conversely, infantry units should get a readiness bonus when attacking when they have not moved(assault preparation). Actually when I think about it, all units should suffer a proportional(depending on type) loss of readiness compared to the amount of APs they use prior to attacking.

Hubert! What's the deal here. You are slipping. Need to immediately edit this last post and attach the time honored

I would also like to add something for forum digestion. I do not want to see the tech levels displayed on the unit counters. Why? This will increase realism and FoW effect. It will be up to your opponent to accurately surmise the level you have attained by observing the icon and deducing the amount of damage they have sustained. Sort of like an observer's miss identification. Burp!

I think this is an important feature. Why? Already we have seen much additional depth added to SC, which equals greater complication, more things to ponder,an increase turn time(real). I have faith that Hubert will endeavor to offset this additional micromanagement with a friendlier interface. Lets face it though, more information on the unit counter/images reduces time to access that information. Strength is there, what's the next most important info, experience/readiness? Supply is also critical, but I believe that could be represented by a toggled display(numeric) for each tile (tile supply status). So in actuality all we need is two numbers on our units, experience represented a number of ways or just 1.3, 2.6, 4 numerically, possibly color tinted for quick recognition and readiness, another numeral 34, 78, 110 no % needed (grayed when under 50%), of course these would be in smaller font then our strength number. Location? In the corners of the counter or base of the images or hovering over the nonbased images. As an added convenience I could invision a small G on the units to show connection to its designated HQ unit, in this case Guderian. That G could be "green" when in range of bonus, or "red" for out of HQ influence. Deductively thinking it is my position that this could be the single most effective feature to help reduce SC micromanagement and simple to incorporate, please correct me if I'm wrong.

Simply Kuni, it is a collection of WW2 data, mostly tables and schematics outlining all the crucial parameters of the conflict. Absolutely no political spin. The single most comprehensive collection of facts I have ever been exposed to in one book about WW2. Is it completely factual? I must say I have seen some other print that is not totally corroborating but I believe it was unintentional of the author. Its a reference book, not easily readible, imagine an encyclopedia, a scenario(strategic scale) designer's dream. If its not in there, its not important. May I recommend a companion, "The Oxford Companion(ha!) to WWII" by John Keegan which is more like a dictionary format, brought to my attention by one of our forum members, don't remember who, but a good piece of advice. I'm not a great reviewer, just a communicator of facts so here are some: Sect.1 The War in Maps (strategic scale) Sect.2 Command Structures Sect.3 Orders of Battle Sect.4 TO&Es Sect.5 Strengths Sect.6 Casualties and Losses Sect.7 Production Sect.8 Hardware and then of course a bibliography, 315 total pages You'll love it.

xwormwood, no insult taken, my skin is thick, and some say my head is to. Believe me, I'm a WC(world community) promoter, but I'm also a student of the past, the way past. The "spirit" that is being referred to dwells within all of us, not just Americans. All men are created equal, but when we leave the womb the inequities begin. Remember all civilizations/countries/organizations etc. begin the same, with an idea to accomplish something, the same as when we leave the womb. It is the ability of the people to set aside their differences and interact to attain their goal that make some more successful than others. The USA has had many internal differences, same as the others, but somehow, the Americans seem to get past them slowly but surely. The "spirit" is the willingness to compromise your beliefs for the betterment of others, sometimes called "giving". And isn't that what we do right here on this SC forum, we compromise what we would like to see in the game in hopes that all will be fulfilled. A minor exercise in "humanity". No one is saying someone else's sacrifice is greater than any others, some are blessed with the ability to give more and are willing to do so, some are not. The playing field was even once, those sacrifices make one team better than the others, luck aside. I can be whatever I want to be as long as I'm willing to make those sacrifices, and that goes for countries too, but that's a little tougher, because humans must give up some of their individuality to be a successful group. And that my friends encompasses the "spirit".

Kuni, I have the book. The section to concentrate on will be #7, Production. All the information is there for all belligerents, it is just not assimilated as a % GDP for war goods. I believe it can be done and then you will need to take the lowest producing country and assign it a value of 1. From there it should be easy to construct a table of relatively useful values for all countries, year by year.

How about 1812, The British? More recently 1941-1945 The Japanese in the Pacific. As for Korea, don't I remember something about 200,000 Chinese. Oh yeah I'll admit there were some other minor, very minor players that helped USA, and we are grateful(not to diminish) for their help, but let's not skew the facts, the majority of the fighting and dying were Americans. As it was, it is. [ May 21, 2004, 06:49 PM: Message edited by: SeaMonkey ]

Colonel, you'll make a great lawyer.

ev, I doubt 3 and 5 will be available, but use your imagination, you may be able to accomplish something similar. For instance, since there will be a few new units in our armed force mix(paras, engineers, naval bombers?) take them and mod the icon, then change the parameters governing their characteristics, disallowing their unique actions and viola, you have a new unit. I believe this may be possible with the editor? Bill? Dave?

Just rationalizing here, if Heavy Tanks represent larger caliber guns and heavier/more armor should we expect possibly a little upgrade in AD and ND when we acquire the higher tech levels, say 4 and 5?

My sources say Kesselring was a Luftwaffe commander.

Excellent ev, got my support. I know you meant to also increase the command(tiles) range of the HQ for additional tech levels?

This would be an easy simulation. Take SC1 feature that only allows operations into a Supply level 5 or greater city. When the USSR cities are conquered they will only allow for level 4 supply until our vaunted "Engineering" unit arrives upon the scene to aid in the expansion of the infrastructure, taking the city to the next level of supply (5). The "Engineering" unit could also be delegated with the ability to provide for minor port facilities on the "Islands of No Return" allowing disembarkation from that local. I would also like to see the "Engineering" unit have the ability to provide a limited enhancement to the supply level of any tile.

Remember DD "you ain't dead yet"! I too was a muscle car fan back in 1966-1972, but didn't have the scratch, then when I did, picked up my Buicks X2. There are still some nice restores out there, persevere, your time will come again, ....the ole cliche "every dog has his day, and good dogs get two". Oh yeah, this time buy the wife her own. [ May 13, 2004, 01:42 PM: Message edited by: SeaMonkey ]

Thanks HC, the "creator's" attention is always appreciated.