Desert Dave

One quick question for you, As it is a long-standing obsession-compulsion Of mine. How do you intend to include? Surface Raiders! :cool: You had mentioned this some whiles back Mr T, But I ain't able to find Wherat it was, just now. I also have a few notions about What to do, though, Haven't had any time to test it out. Yep, With your already demonstrated agility At this mod craft, I'd be VERY curious to hear Your surf-raider solution.

THE most "miraculous" thing about "playing" With these VERY adeptly done 2D sprites, You can get many more unit-types Out of yer mind and -> into the game. :cool: In my own 39WIP (... grand campaign game, as work in progress) I have managed to include THIRTY-THREE (33) Separate and distinctly functional Military units. From the original 19, Not counting transports or amphib craft. Well, some would say - that ain't Old-school, punch-card cool 'cuz! It makes too much cloy & clutter. I say - no way! An adroit example - WiF-FE The never-bored! game has MORE Unit types than even my modest # of 33 And it don't detract nor Interfere with good old-fashioned War game play, IMO. OK, to accomplish this Requires a certain amount Of finesse & finagle With particular game features And, essentially, Being WILLING To change a received-perceived Gestalt - somewhat. Sure, you could also do such as that With the 3D sprites, BUT... you'd need be precociously clever At graphic arts, And from experience, And finally, In most cases - being half-satisfied With mis-matched sprites. After all, Aesthetics is, oh, IMHO, a good FIFTY (50) % Of any acutely accomplished War-game - board, or computer. Your sub-conscious rarely "sees" What yer lookin' at. THE best 2D sprites thus far (... and some some body's gotta go a ways further to do it enny better, IMO) Have been done by pzgndr For his outstanding Mod of A3R. Alright, to my way of thinking, THE very best aspect of SC2-WaW, Is... that unprecedented Editor. (... no TOAW ain't even in the same league, more like sandlot ball compared to the Big Show) Learn how to use that (... it ain't all that difficult, rather, as with anything else unfamiliar, it's a matter of - simply, taking that FIRST - risking step) And ipso trismegistus, ANYONE could certainly open up Whole unknown worlds - brand new Chances for... grand adventure. :cool:

Then, Going by that particular criterium, Chess is the all time champeen! And, Hmmmm... which game TODAY most resembles Chess? SC 1, 2 and - could it be - 3! :cool: Not bad. Though... the Battle of the Atlantic, And - the Allied Strategic Bombing campaign, Was a bit short-shrifted, nein? - vveedd? Mostly it was a small series Of pre-determined kleine conflicts So to get to the REAL Metal-to-metal 4-6 VS 4-5 deal, The GErmans VS the Russians. It will probably need to be Gott, vveedd, But... he or she seems to be Mighty busy these days Deciding which of his mortal minions Is the MOST back-brain lunatic. It sucked. Waiting! For user input! LOLOL! DOS is history. History is a lost art. Art is taking what is COMPLEX And making it... simple, NOT the other way 'round. Chess is simple for those who don't Wish to study a LIFETIME To learn how to play it... superbly. So. Now you got Strategic Command In ALL it's various iterations, With some more - probably? On the drawing board. What more? Could you ask for? vveedd! :cool:

Very true, Brad, about ALL of those who've - "assisted." I'd like to take a moment And mention one guy Who ain't enny overt advertisement For Himself, no, not hardly, That's not his kind of calling-card, In this - the day Of the celebrity Contestant & Tester, Who has been around since way, way back, And that is... Dan Fenton. Most don't know his name, but, He has indeed - contributed immensely. As have SC Cats like yerself, And Waltero and Jersey John, (... the one and only - Boardwalk Raconteur!) And very many others Back then and here and now - offering Their OWN vital-valuable comments, Ideas and suggestions. :cool: BTW - since I very well know of your own Long learned WW2 GS... ken & expertise, Might I ask? What kind of MOD might we expect From -> you? How about doing PTO! (... which you've merely mentioned by now, oh, about 6 or 17 times! ) That way, we can all realize Some proto proofs And too, a few new possibilities. And, What else (... other than amphib-landable "beach tiles") Might be needed? So to fully appreciate - at least, One unique Texas way That high-romantic Naval War game Could be accomplished?

Yes, and long unloved by those of us who would like SC to actually MEAN "strategic"....... Oddly a candidate for the best strategic level WW2 game might end up being one called "Advanced TACTICS"....now that'd be ironic </font>

Hmmmmm... thinking on it some more, You CAN indeed have EACH And every... single... individual ship, Uniquely outfit. :cool: You gotta sacrifice very little In yer ordinary "game schematic," however, But, Since the naval units are mostly arriving Off the production queu (... just too expensive, save for the subs and DD's) You can do this without losing ANY thing vitally vital, IMO. In my own mod, I have done it And it works out great. See, To me - that IS the main thing. It is beyond simply - astounding! How you can change so very many aspects Of this X-tremely flexible game. Said it before, will say it once more, EVERYBODY gets to have their very own Personalized WW2 GS game. Should they really desire it. And IF they aren't so inclined, SOMEBODY will do a mod That suits each Player... to a "T."

On a nation by nation basis, I mean to say. Don't know abut you, but It's... good enuff for me.

Actually, Now you can pretty much design unique Naval units using the SC2WaW Editor. Mighty Behemoths, Everday average BB's, Battle Cruisers, Heavy Cruisers, Light Cruisers, DD's, Escort Carriers, Fast Carriers, and, Etc, etc. Each with their own individualized ratings. Can be done - by - anyone. :cool:

You do not pile second upon second, Minute atop minute, The diurnal hours - STACKED Like clock-work bricks In some - steeply-stepped stairway to Heaven, Do you? No stacking! Who on this here fast-waning Planet would want? Such a clumsy cluttered, wrought Up wrangled tangle and bogged Clogged kind of congestion - as that? :confused: Click & click, Click and click and click and - click! Seeking for what? One tiny? Secretly hidden game piece? Through endless, interminable, Stacks & stacks Of minutes or pixels Or stick-figure depictions? It's ALL... only... abstraction. WW2 is... done been fought, The blood and viscera spilled forth Soaking the ground sullied insensate, 60 years done and gone and now, just Settled dust, In that bottomless bin of History. Therefore, No matter HOW you play it, or Sing it or song it or bring it Or essay it, With dice, With arcanely ordered, tandems of random Ones & zeroes, zeroes And ones, Whether it be about Hannibal riding along side-saddle Up on a lumbering, lop-ear elephant, Or, In this particular instance, The - usually - guten burgher Deutsche Volk Convinced by - a hectoring Idiot Inartistically screaching - hey you! Most superior Dudes... yes you! Can indeed be! Foolish Stiff-limb, dumb-strutting animals! Or any another young, someone-loving Soldier For that matter, Just surviving it out, In a desert or a jungle or amid Green-folded fields of furrow & flowers, Ah, yea, it goes. On and on, Second by second, Minute by minute, Hour by hour, It's all of an all, Which War and why and when. Nary a moment's Peace in between The next night fraught With daemon-begot dreams... now AND - then... the merest of... abstraction. Well how do ya do - lucky for us! Hubert himself is not enny - ab-straction. He's the real thing alright, And has created THE best WW2 Grand Strategy, Turn-based and Euro-earth based, Intro-spective, intra-ultra, multi-contestable And vast and long-lasting SRO, stomp! the boards, Super-califragilistic Spec-tacular! :cool: Well, you'll get to play for yerself - soon. Play and play and play and play, Minute by minute, hour After hour, day - ah - s'gotten late? Driving the lady the mistress The latest mate anyway - antic & crazy! Weeks and weeks even! and you'll - maybe - never! See the sun or some other sorta fun, nor, Nay, for better or for worse, Our (... currently) un-crowded moon.

I would surely hope so. :cool: It's what will make the game Even greater than it already is, yep, You'll soon enuff see What I mean. All You lurkers and first-time players! Get the heck - in here! And say it straight And right out loud, Just what you like, and don't like. ALL suggestions and comments Are equally valid, IMO. NO single person has the ONLY insight On what makes a truly outstanding, And long lasting, ever Re-playable game, and For sure, me included. Well, I am off on X-tended vacation, will See you'all - next month, probably.

To paraphrase a snatch of song From forever young singin' - Minnesota Zimmerman: ______________________________________ ... the old guard is rapidly agin' you'd better start swimmin' or you'll sink like a stone, for the times they are a'changin' _____________________________________ LOL, Well, some things ain't never go out of style, Some things stay strange yet always the same, Yep, are hand-tooled by Dudes & fools, outta - quick-silver, Quiet cool, and lotsa plain Old guile, Such like: Well, so long as you fine tune 'at wooden wagon, And hang C-shaped from a worked slick board, sure, So long as you've worn them - la di da - designer tags Clean off! Yer bleached-out baggies, Yep, it's then And ONLY then, you'll Keep within reach - that Sea-enclosed beach Of yer dreams, why, Whatever is new wave can be rode - endlessly, Winter into Summer into Winter Into Spring - uh huh, should you Believe it so, cast-away somebody Else's - logos and reason... it's ALWAYS A fun-in-the-sun season of... Spring! Best, anything at'all Can be just... that... easy. :cool: I tell you now, How it is That Old guard stretches, yawns, Then the baby sharks come to play. I say again, How it is That Old guard shows no casual interest In all 'em strollin' along young Lasses & lovelies, yeah, you know, The ones? In dis-appearing bikinis? Old guard... knows things. That the brand new hot-doggers gots to wait Like, way, way past last low tide, man, Before they can even - BEGIN... to understand.

LOL, know JUST how you feel, Kinda how the ever-fluctuant System named... "science," And/or "progress @ ANY cost" Does dastardly things to me. :eek: [... what DO you do, Dudes, when logic & proportion have fallen sloppy dead? When the White Knights talking backwards, and The Red Queen's - off with her head! LOL!] Nice play on words there, BTW. "Persists me off." :cool: Thing is THIS: You are immensely more likely To -> at long last, and actually GET that great WW2 GS game... here, Than you are at enny a'them Exploitive rip-off places like Matrix Or Slithering-Snake, or who the hell Else is out-putting junk. So long as we don't succumb To the temptation To have the game MERELY or even, MOSTLY... for the head-hunters. New! Game buyers ain't give a rat's whiskers Whether the game is precisely "balanced" For a hand-full of -> uber competers. A billion humans in China don't Care who gives testimonial, eh? It NEEDS be, more, a game for ALL Them crazed and antic Cats what plays It out solo. IMHO. Modding it to be EXACTLY how they like it, If necessary. Lucky for us! We got a guy who provides the sort of Editor Where you can do - damn near - anything! :cool: "Ultra?" You can mimic it but, not Perfectly duplicate it.

IOW, Nobody else had the 88's, nor, Apparently, The know-how to know how To make do with a thing different Than what was the original classification Of weapon systemology. Piddling Bofors - pfffft.

OK, All youse other dirty dozen Testers, Plus or minus 2 to six in addition, Whoso ain't actually understandin' Nuthin' much about no "mechanics" Nor none a'that there WW2 GS game "balance," Can go home now! Liam says so! Terif and EP Have arrived With wild gold chariot wheels a'fire! And have got this here conundrum thang Finally! Straightened out, But good! LOL!

OK, Everybody! Roll up yer sleeves, RE-apply that (... hard practised, in a mirror, any looking glass will do) Ham-acting Bad Cat visage (... who! IS! The Jolly Green Giant, IE, THE meanest! em-effer -> in the Valley! :mad: ) Say, How a REAL tough guy would do, oh, Hemingway or Cagney, VN-evading Stallone, and Likewise as it was with Dick Cheney (... Jean Paul Belmondo, in that borrowed-noir, new-wave French cinema verite - "Breathless?) And, Whilst rotating the forearm, Point to -> the bicep? And, Grimace, Gnash incisors, Growl. Eat a large red beach-towel? LOLOLOL! Ah, Ain't we come a long, long, long ways Since the cave days, uh huh, Ain't we just! I prefer this here comment by ev: How does! That there wry and - ironic? Aside - go? "As a Species, we've become smarter But, Ack and alas also, not much wiser." Judging from some of the above Large, and small muscle flexing, Sure, 'at's about right.

I suspect some body needs Take out Them inconclusive words, Complete, or ready (...said as -> "rdy") OUT of this here thread-head? Then, put 'er in the MOD Forum Where all the others are, And maybe say: "Work in Progress, Whole World War!" For instance.

To be able to play it on something like Google Earth or Virtual Earth where the $!*% map will actually convey the true scope of WW II. </font>

Let's put it this way: Deep in Russia, You surely wouldn't "build up" Your TAC to be a "naval bomber," Would you? Why? Pay the extra cost every time You reinforce the "ground support unit." If you are playing as Axis, Well, For Italy you'd likely "build up" A TAC to be a "naval bomber,' And... not necessarily upgrade It to also be a GSU, true? Why pay the added cost each reinforcement If ALL you really need to do, At that juncture of the Med Naval Wars, Is use your "naval bomber" to Attack the Royal Navy. Choices. NOW, it's all about... choices. Major and minor, Macro and micro, Involving every single facet of the game. So many, in fact, that you simply CANNOT Do everything, Or purchase everything! That you might want. No way. So the game has evolved to the point Where the # of possible Strategies AND Tactics Is approaching... the unlimited. EVERY game you play WILL present New and different pleasures and problems. What more could you ask for? :cool: [ September 02, 2007, 05:42 AM: Message edited by: Desert Dave ]

Having read all that's been said, I keep coming back to the simple, Yet truly intractable - fact, As mentioned above. No matter the "abstracted" mechanisms (... which, truly might approach the infinite) That any one game player might assume, Whether that be Coerced labor contributions, Industrial output/efficiency, Strategic, or even tactical bombing, Etc, and else, almost - ad infinitum, And no matter the fluid definition Of what a size "3" unit Might be, IE, It is then considered "shattered" Or "in imagined retreat" status, The fact is - on board, It has an effective value of "3" (... and as ever, modified by readiness and morale and supply status, etc) But, the one thing it is not - is zero Number of soldiers. OK, no matter all that, And much more besides, IF you can forever reconstitute Your @-start units + allowable builds At a very low cost, THEN you don't actually, strictly have "Force pool limits," IMO. Well, Maybe these aren't necessary To have a fun, fairly historical And emminently re-playable game? Then again, for another player, Perhaps... they are. In which case, Each individual CAN indeed "tweak" Several editable factors To make the force-pool loose, Or quite constrained, as they'd prefer. One thing is certain, however, And that is... NO Nation, Large, small or middling sized Could continue to summon a never-ending Supply of combat capable soldiers. Theoretically, Russia and USA had the most flexibility Due to considerable reliance On women in the labor force. Even there, Some "hard & fast" limit would surely And FINALLY be reached, wouldn't it? When does a perfectly satisfactory WHAT IF? (... IE, YOU! As supreme commander CAN eke-out the absolute maximum from your native and foreign laborers) Become a possible, but highly unlikely WHY NOT? Have it where... anything goes? [ September 02, 2007, 05:18 AM: Message edited by: Desert Dave ]

The list of contributors would be MUCH longer than the 3 of us, But, Me too! I like how - now, the "naval bombers" Will in fact be a separate component Built from "scratch," well Actually, That and some struts and metals, Decals, wheels and - push-pedals. The Naval Game has always been (... along with North Afrika) My own favorite part of WW2. Don't know why exactly, Except... maybe? The old salt of the Sea Is coursing long along in all of us? :cool:

My own favorite was "The Wind in the Willows," Authored by Kenneth Grahame (1908); The poster below by Alan Bennett: Yep, Wore the cover clean off it. I like that comment by C.S. Lewis _______________________ "No book is worth reading at the age of 10 which is not equally worth reading at the age of 50." ________________________________________ [ August 31, 2007, 08:14 AM: Message edited by: Desert Dave ]

How does this comment elucidate The issue at hand? :confused: Lighten up a little? I have found that war-gamers Are a competitive And opinionated bunch. So? They're kinda like: And ipso - some times will blow off A little steam, eh? (... I DO appreciate that you and SeaMonkey have NEVER gone O/T yerselves, eh? ) Well, Anyways - sooon enough you'll see Nuthin' but! Suggestions, comments and Mod stuff Having to do with SC WaW! Main thing, I've found in playing it Is this: So very many CHOICES You gotta make. You can't have it all! Now, The sheer # of different ways Of executing yer S&T is truly gonna make THIS game RE-playable, For years and years and years. Decades, even.

Well, jjr, Should you merely do that, Wouldn't the bottom parts Of yer, doubtless - stick & cloth furniture, YET be in the way Of yer l-o-o-o-o-n-g time NEEDED... sweeping? Actually, And seriously, you oughta start Yer very own blog. You could SWEEP away ANY sorta fog or smog, WRT - doggone near anything! War and peace. Hot-rod motors leaking 40 weight grease. The good and the bad. What's wack and ugly too! What's truly cool, and better What is - phat today, but tomorrow Gone again! Kinda low-brow fad! You could BE... a whole world! Renowned Legend. Not merely! A one to be found rending And a'sundering some innocent War gamers on a lonely outpost Sorta forum! :cool: [... as I've said before - write that book! If Paris Hilton can do it, having ONLY lived - what? just the 21 years? So can you! ]

Pardon, but what ACTUALLY happened is this: In the early stages of the war, there WERE IN FACT, MUCH higher casualties for the blacks Than for the whites. THEN -> a "critical mass" of influential Black leaders commenced to complain About this very FACT. What the Pentagon/D.C Establishment Did at that point, Was... ORDER the field Officers To "pull back" the blacks (... and, concomittently, draft AND send over the seas, FEWER of them) And send to the front, The whites. There is NO doubt about this, You can find it any historical account. Of this I am ABSOLUTELY convinced. It ain't no propaganda, my friend. When I said "rich kids," I meant... upper AND middle class, ah, IOW - anyone not below The "poverty line." Most of the deferments Due to that "2S" I have mentioned. [... curious aside: the students most vehemently protested - then; now, there IS no draft, what protest do you notice on Main Street? LOL!] Some due to "family Doctors" being Submissive when the Mother Would "emotively" argue that The debilitation in question, Say the lingering sty on the eye, Surely was, well, debilitating. Some due to "unholy influence" With a Draft Board selector. Some due to the lawyered up kid Who could convince the Board That they were "essential" somehow Either, To their "family business," Or, no matter how tortured The connection... to the "war effort." Some due to self-inflicted injury. Some due to having sufficient "wits About themselves," They could convince a Board member That they were "gay" or O/W hindered, IE - "depressed" Or "psycho," and etc. The list could be even longer, But I believe I've made the point. Those who COULD muster some sort Of "excuse," did so With alarming - even, disarming, Alacrity. See what I mean? The poor kids HAD NO devises, No sleight of hand, No access to lawyers or doctors Or much of anything for that matter. What they had was a sturdy body And, apparently, A greater love of Country? and Stronger obligation? To do what was "honorable," Even if - accidentally so. BTW: I have no sympathy for those Who ran away and hid from it all, say, To Canada or Sweden. Nor for the suddenly "conscientiously objecting" sort of Cowards. You either "fight the fight" of yer Life Whereat you LIVE, or you die In a particular sort of way, way Down deep in yer... insides. The figure was ~ 80% When I was in (... same comparative research study) it was... 50/50 Dems and Republicans. Now, that kind of drastic change DOES worry... me. NOT because it's a change toward Republicans, but, instead, That it is a significant change In and of itself. Military Officers are not elected, obviously, And, after all, it may well be A temporary representation. Nonetheless, I liked it better when It was 50/50. "Resolutions" are one thing. Outright "declarations of War," Are an ENTIRELY different thing. Since WW2, we have had these VERY flimsy Rationales for... WAR. U.N. decrees, Gulf of Tonkin Resolution, WHATEVER that latest "escape responsibility" THING was WRT Iraq, Well, I am yet going to go with the Constitution: ONLY Congress can declare WAR. Doesn't say, for instance, "A piece of paper with vague scribbling on it will satisfy." See the difference? ____________________________ I am a kind of hyprocrite, I admit. Notso long ago I had said: "Time to get OVER it." Apparently I haven't yet. Getting closer, though. Here's hoping I'll finally CLOSE That chapter in the VERY short Book of my life. I ain't wantin' to go to my grave STILL fretting about That relatively small # of pages In the Book. Which has a beginning, and an end. A front cover, and, yep, A back cover as well. [ August 30, 2007, 06:36 AM: Message edited by: Desert Dave ]

Well, SM, it warn't so much "logic" As it was... "gut-feeling" That a LOT is amiss these here strange Days in late great America. I would imagine that one's personal "Honor Code" would dictate Their decision whether to defend Their neighborhood, Their City, Their State, Or their Nation, From unruly gangsters (... "gangsters" truly being an all-inclusive, deliberately chosen word ). THIS time I will use what logic I am able to muster: Hmmmm... so I am to assume That "poor kids" LOVE their country MORE than rich kids? MORE than students? MORE than athletes or celebrities? MORE than Politician's kids? MORE than the Politicos - themselves? Who never serve? Never DID serve during the quagmire times? "Chicken-hawks" we call 'em. And BTW, IF you should need a LIST Of who served (... amongst the Pols) And who did NOT, I'd be happy to provide it. VERY curious the # of Republicans, As with messers Bush & Cheney, Who... somehow found "Other things to do." And so - I guess? THEY just didn't LOVE their country QUITE as much as did - say, the OVER Represented # of black kids From the Ghettos? LOL. [ August 29, 2007, 09:24 AM: Message edited by: Desert Dave ]