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http://davidlevinthal.com/works.html especially the "Hitler Moves East" section. Sorry if this has been posted before. I stumbled across it while looking for info on the book "Hitler Moves East."

I was responding to some very questionable posts. I have been in this exact thread probably a dozen other times on this and other forums, I should have known better, but I'm prone to acting on impulse at times. I don't quite see how you can define my posts in this thread as a "diatribe." I don't think the definition fits, but to each his own. Maybe there was a dash of bitterness in there... Glad you enjoyed that. Just had my fangs sharpened to a fine point, its nice to show them off. Can I use that as my sig? I like the way it flows. You are right though, it was pretty pointless, I'll use the "acting on impulse" defense again on that one. One thing I can say about that picture is that at least its not a pile of corpses.

I really like your captured T-34/76 M43. Thats a great looking mod. The 25 Pounder is really nice as well...

Umm. Put that way, I say no. He was not. I have two of Carell's major works, 'Foxes of the Desert' and 'Hitler Moves East', and have read parts of 'Scorched Earth'. Carell reminds me of ancient historians, such as Livy, who were more interested in telling a story than finding truth. I would not put it past Carell to invent facts or details if it added to his narritive. Just as Livy did. But his books were among the earliest accounts of the war from the German perspective. And they make good reads. Like it or not, Carell is an important part of the WW2 historiography. </font>

I wasn't meaning to compare what happened in Dresden with Pearl. But when thinking about the bombings which the Japanese suffered, it helps to remember the state of mind of the men who were carrying out and ordering those bombings, and the major events which put them into the position to have to do those terrible deeds. I am sure not many of them were sitting at home on December 6th, dreaming of the day they would get to drop bombs on the Japanese. </font>

Those are some very fine points. Thanks for getting the thread back on topic.

I wasn't meaning to compare what happened in Dresden with Pearl. But when thinking about the bombings which the Japanese suffered, it helps to remember the state of mind of the men who were carrying out and ordering those bombings, and the major events which put them into the position to have to do those terrible deeds. I am sure not many of them were sitting at home on December 6th, dreaming of the day they would get to drop bombs on the Japanese.

You have yet to provide documentary evidence of this. In a court of law, you would need to demonstrate motive and means. So what is your evidence? And your own thoughts and perceptions are rather irrelevant; you must demonstrate that the USAAF and RAF ordered the bombing solely to kill enemy civilians. I doubt you will be able to provide that sort of proof, frankly, but am willing to listen. Contemporary sources are best, naturally, as hindsight can only cloud the issue. What were they thinking at the time? </font>

They can, of course, close or move the thread as they see fit. But I disagree with anyone who attempts to imply that the Allied objective in the Dresden raid was nothing but cold blooded murder.

We won't...

And if NAZI Germany had had access to the bomber force which the US and UK commanded....

I saw an interview recently with men who had served in both RAF bomber command and the US 8th AF in WW2. One guy who had been a bombardier on a B17 said that by the last year of the war any German town that had so much as a road running through it was regarded as a military target. So yes, at the time, Dresden was regarded by the allies as a military target.</font>

There was a Zeiss-Ikon facility and a Siemens glass facility which developed and produced optics and gun sights for the German army. There were factories in and around Dresden which created gas masks, fuses, radar and electronics components, engines for Junkers and cockpit parts for Messerchmitts. Dresden was also a major rail hub which the Germans used to shift troops between fronts.

There were military targets in Dresden, breaking morale of the civilian population was not the sole cause of the Dresden raid.

I don't think civilians should be involved in CM.

A chilling endorsement from the SS...

Well said...

To take this further, there are a few series of scenario at the depot which can be played in order as a sort of campaign. One that comes to mind is the Vuosalmi Campaign series.

Who gave you that idea?

Thanks for the info... Very interesting

Well, unless you are Kellen Winslow Jr.

Captain Crank, your singer is hot! I am currently working on my BA in history from Iowa State, and after that I will go to graduate school (somewhere) for a Masters and then eventually a Doctorate. I think that the term historian, according to dictionary, can be either a professional, a student or a writer of history. But I have also seen definitions which include people who just have a genuine love for history. But, I think that considering that some people devote much of their lives to history and base their living on work in history, the title of historian should be reserved for them. I mean, just because someone might have an interest in science, that alone cannot make them a scientist. Maybe the same thing should apply to the history field. I don't know, its a free country.

I knew that. But the definition of "grognard" refused to come up on dictionary.com. So I tried grog and got what I got.

I'm not sure that this recipe was the only one followed. Another that I have heard of was one part rum (up to 150 proof :eek: ) to three or four parts water. To this was added lemon juice (often previously concentrated) and sugar. In other words, the Royal Navy was very much into serving and consuming cocktails! Michael </font>