Mlapanzer

M-60 firing from the hip no problem. Eventhough accuracy does suffer. I just read an account of a Screaming Eagle using a 50cal from the hip at Bastone during an assault on some dug in Germans. Extreme stress can make one do extreme things. Like the lady who lifts a car off the pinned child.

The best soldiers of WW2 were the citizen soldiers. Note ALL "profesional Army's of WW2 lost. The French in 1940. The BEF in 1940. The German army in 1945. The Japanese in 1945.The war was won by the citizen soldiers of all the allied countries. So who we're the best soldiers? It was the shopkeepers, farmers, students, peasants et el. Not that I want to tick off any Marines out there but talk about myth's. The biggest myth was that the USMC was an elite force. McArthur and his band of misfit troops took more area from Japan than the Marines did and did it loosing fewer men in 3+ years of fighting than were lost in one day at D-day. I think surviving a war and winning makes you a better fighting force than one that looses far to many men. Which Island was it that the U.S Army had to come into to save the invasion? The name escapes me at the moment.

I would have to say quit simply MEDIC's. This would encompass all nationalities and specialties. Think about it!

JAPAN HI MOM!!

Don't worry the Ohio National guard has a history of taking care of these things :eek: BTW: HI MOM

Don't worry the Ohio National guard has a history of taking care of these things :eek: BTW: HI MOM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MrSpkr: Devious and gamey. I like it! MrSpkr [ 04-13-2001: Message edited by: MrSpkr ]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I don't want to get into a gamey not gamey argument. But I concider this keeping the other guy honest. If he garrisons his taken OB's properly it won't work. This then has the effect of weakening his attacking force. This garrisoning of taken OB's is what slower MG's and towed guns are good for. One time I garrisoned an OB with 2 flametrowers. He counter attacked with some beat up infantry and got toasted. Pun intended.

I think everyones ideas have merit. The one thing I would add is on defense you MUST be patient. Too many people including me at times want to move units around alot. It is tough to just sit there and let the battle come to you. One little tactic I like to use if possible is not to try and hold all the OB's but to hide a small counter attacking force that can come in late in the game and retake some over run OB's that are away from the main attack. Since most players will try to hold OB's with as little residual forces as possible it is possible to retake them with some weaker armor or 1/2 tracks with Infantry. I have used this tactic to gain a draw were none seemed possible and even a victory. But it is still very very hard to defend and it takes a lot of time and practice.

A win is a win is a win. I'll take it anyway I can get it. I have surrendered and been surrendered to. I have no problem with it but do prefer for the other guy to do it.

I agree. I would like to see the rotate turret command also. I'm in a situation now were I have a king tiger that is immobilzed and is much more of a sitting duck than he should be not being able to rotate his turret untill he spots a target.But thanks for the using MG's to turn the turret. I'll be doing that when I get the turn back.

not strange at all for a squad to take out a jeep or truck at those ranges. The BAR and LMG could easily do the job. Plus there was the availability of armor piercing bullets that could co through an engine block at those ranges. I did have a zook take out 2 Panthers in one turn once. 2 shots 2 kills not thats good shootin. ------ "phhhhfffffft" Bill the Cat

well I don't know what your looking for but I think MG's as modeled in CM are more effective than any I have seen in any other game. IMHO they work very well in the roll they were intended. As Andew stated it would be very unlikely for an MG to just saturate an area with fire without a seen or at least percieved threat. Just having an MG overwatch an area of woods without a designated target will have the desired and I believe appropriate effect.I for one am more than happy when a MG takes a squad out of the action for a turn. Then when your next turn comes around you can always designate another target you percieve to be more of a threat. rememebr a turn is ONLY 1 minute. If your getting overun by then you probably set un in a bad position. ------ "PHHHFFFFFT" Bill the Cat

well then just stay away from my daughter and enjoy CM.

you CAN area fire on a building or section of hedgerows with MG and Infantry squads now.I do It all the time when using fire and movement. I'll area fire on a building or patch of woods I am moving a unit into to suppress any units that might be there. It can be very effective or it can just waiste alot of ammo. I have also found that MG's will most deffinately switch targets when the unit it is firing on goes to ground thus suppressing multiple units in a turn. ------- "PHHHFFFFFFT" Bill the Cat

Hey Wolfcub do your buggering now. once you get CM there will no want or need for any sex again ------ "PHHFFFFFT" Bill the Cat

Great post by all. From what I have read by different sources getting men to fire was a problem. It does seem that Patton did consider this a problem and was always emphasizing Marching fire in his 3rd army and it's training.Maybe this is what made the 3rd more effect than some of the other Armies. I know most of these post have been about the U.S Army does anyone have any sources about this problem in other armies? I'm sure it's not just a U.S. Army problem. The make-up dynamics of units is also an interesting side bar. I work with a Vietnam Vet who is willing to talk to me about his experiences there and the one thing he always brings up is how the strong fighters generally know who the other strong fighters are and stick together. Where the weaker ones tend to stay together also. This also seems to be a common theme in other personal accounts. As an aside the U.S. army is now experimenting with going back to using some of the older methods of training of marksmanship. It seems now that the pendulum has swung to far and there is now a need to teach more marksmanship along with the area fire technics. ------- "PHHFFFFFFT" Bill the cat

I'm not really that noligible on the real technical aspects of armor. But try going to your local modeling store they have should have some great picture books of different armor. I've seen alot of those since my best friend is heavy itno modeling. "Closing with the Enemy" how GI's fought the war in Europe,1944-1954.Is a great read and everytime I reread it I learn something new plus there is a great Bibliography to lead to other sources. Another great read is "Panzer commander: the memiors of Hans Von Lucke. A Panzer commander who fought on every front of the war. Also I have access to the FM manual on the Sherman. Would anyone be interested in a photo copy of it. If there were enough people interested in it I could get quality copies of it an offer it to cover my cost. ----- "PHHFFFFFFT" Bill the cat

Oh no not the resurrection of the Combat Missions show makes fun of REAL soldiers thread. AAAUGH!!! ------ "PHFFFFFT" Bill the cat.

There's ALWAYS room for improvement Except your truly of course YEA RIGHT!

Hey didn't Rommel get killed for trying to assasinate Hitler? DUH! BTW mine is Lapanzer because it's a combination of my last name and panzer and it just sounds better than LaTank. Why oh why does everything someone does have to be taken SOOO serious by someone. Loosen up that spincter muscle a bit. BTW: HI MOM!

Why play in a ladder when your already at the top . I'm with you guys. I play historical scen. and QB,s but with guys who don't only buy Ubertanks and SMG on nice bright sunny dry days.I don't mind playing against a Tiger or 2 but why play if it's the same game all the time. I don't understand that mentality. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with it just that I don't understand the mentality?

Correct Gen-x the comparison to the other games really isn't equal since those games are of a different scale. You really wouldn't counter battery fire on 60mm. Counter battery fire as you see it in those other games is really outside the scope of CM.

Infanrty smoke in WW2 was generally used for marking targets for air strikes. Steel Panthers is wrong to have so much smoke around to use. It was always one of my pet peaves with that game along with the spotting. But thats off topic and I don't want to get this thread locked down.

Use off board artilery to counter battery fire an are you suspect of holding those mortars. The mortars even the 60mm kind we're mostly used in the manner specified. They we're usually in a Co. mortar plt. Not piece mealed out to the plt.s a lone 60 is just about useless IMHO. I spread them out as much as the terrain and LOS's will allow to try and minimize the counter battery fire effectiveness. There really should be a mortar plt. leader given in an OOB. While we're on the subject why aren't any attacking forces able to dig in? Depending on different types of attacks there should be units able to dig in. Also TRP's can be very effective for using your mortars on the attack since they don't have to have any LOS's to them if they haven't moved from the start of the game.

I agree a routed unit not in command should stay routed. That's what Co's are good for. HMG's should abandon when they route. As for the dropping weapons some chance of dropping or keeping them. You can't say everyone would drop and run or everyone would keep them. It's just that it is so engrained in a soldier the importance of that rifle. I would say that when your routed and the adreniline is pumping you don't even notice the weight of a rifle much. Maybe the keeping or dropping of a weapon would depend on the quality of the unit. A green ill trained soldierwould be more likely to drop and run.