dieseltaylor

Sergei Terry Ganders book on anti-tank weapons disagrees in some respects to your quoted source. Two fingers to fire [ Iam not sure that thisn't the traditional English way] Can be re-cocked lying down - but very difficult Mentions the max. possible range as 700 metres but effective ranges as per your quote. Regarding Mr Tittles and blowback I think the whole point of the blast to the rear was dissapated in successfully pushing the spring back for recocking. It would rather mess up the design otherwise? : )

Welcome! Two things - the only must have on my systems are the gridded terrain so that you can get the folds of the ground reasonably easily. CM is soo so immersive with so much to learn you would do best not to disappear to the "modding world"

Redwolf. Presumably the buttoning comes up as the result of coming under fire in which case it would be understandable if the TC was sufficiently distracted to momentarily, or longer, lose sight of the target. If the target is being fired at then presumably the TC is spotting to correct the aim so will not be able to offer corrections whilst unsighted. For the reasons above when replying to JAWS I think the possibility of guns missing even with previous hits must be reasonable at 1700 metres. Exactly at what ranges these spotting rules have to occur will always be arbitrary 1700, 1800, 2500m and I assume - though may be wrong that the quality of crew and the weather are also factored in.

Jaws Interesting point. My first reaction is that your experience is very extensive - but with tanks that had had the benefit of battle results from the WWII. Certainly some war tanks were acknowledged pigs with relaying required after firing - in particular one of the US tank destroyers. I also feel that quality control in shell manufacture may have been a little more relaxed - no information to hand on that. Lastly we need to consider if the recoil absorbing abilities of all tanks is equivalent. Secondly that the ground, slope they are on is not in anyway affected by repeated firing from the same position. All reasons in my mind to accept misses after hits. Perhaps if you say which tank you were using in your testing and target etc we can get a better feel of whether your suggestion has further ramifications. : )

GAJ Brail Civil War I think you mean Braille - I had not realised it had aroused so much opposition! 1860 Colombia 1864 Paraquay 1864 Peru 1879 Chile 1870 Maoris South east asia Africa Rumania, Russia , Turkey , Montenegro and etc

Troll!

I am reading more of the NZ history and certainly they improved markedly as they went towards Tunis. With hindsight benefit I feel I would have been a wunderkid : )...... but its interesting to read the doctrinal struggles, something like the big wing, that went on regarding artillery deployment.

David I Sid Meier's immortal, and highly playable, Gettysburg shows what can be done with running at regimental blocks and battery level. The LOS seemed to suck a bit but a brilliant multiplayer realtime game for grownups

and even better p451 "The Development of the Stonk The stay in Nofilia is chiefly memorable, however, for an important development in field artillery tactics, foreshadowed by methods used in the Middle East School of Artillery, in training in Syria, and in action in the Alamein line. The first mention of this in the war diaries is by the 6th Field on 4 January, which states that that regiment practised ‘the “STONK” procedure’ and ‘also Quick Barrages’. Mobile warfare in the desert clearly called for methods quicker and more flexible than those formerly employed by the Royal Artillery. The field gunners wanted to cut fire orders to the barest minimum so as to permit effective fire against fleeting opportunity targets and to guard against sudden attacks, perhaps from unexpected quarters. The essence of the stonk was that, at the divisional level, a target 1200 yards long and 300 yards deep could be engaged at extremely short notice. The regiments and batteries knew exactly what was expected of them so long as they were given the centre of the stonk area and the bearing of the long side. The elaborate reformulation of orders at each link as they descended along the chain of command, which was the orthodox method, became unnecessary. Once the method became widely understood many refinements were added to save even more time. Bombardier Gallagher16 of 29 Battery of the 6th Field, for example, an M.Sc. with honours in mathematics, designed a special template or protractor for use on the artillery board. It contained a hole which fitted over the stonk centre point and from it the area on which the battery had to fire could at once be marked on the sheet of talc which covered the map. In a matter of seconds, given the point and bearing, the line and range of individual guns could be called out. To facilitate coverage of the target area the 25-pounder troops got into the habit of occupying gun lines so laid out—where the ground permitted—that the first and fourth guns were 150 yards apart and the two-troop batteries covered the 300 yards normally allotted to them in the stonk area. Similarly a standard barrage of 10 lifts which could be brought down quickly was worked out and practised and for this, too, Gallagher designed an ingenious protractor.17 Both methods became widely used, not only by the New Zealand gunners, but by the gunners of Eighth Army and, in the end, of much of the British Army.

I vote we go for a CM subscription model so our heroes just get on inventing new games and improvements without having to divert their energies to grubby commerce : ) Say 20 bucks a head - discount if you have more than one .....

from http://www.nzetc.org/etexts/WH2Arti/c15-2.html "From the many reports it soon became clear what route the enemy proposed to take, and all three New Zealand field regiments, the artillery of 7 Armoured Division, 5 AGRA, and the heavy ack-ack guns on the airfield were all warned and given a centre point and bearing for a stonk about 3000 yards from Point 270. Captain Hanna of the 4th Field was watching closely from that feature and at the critical moment called for the fire. It was ordered by Artillery Headquarters at 5.45 p.m. and began to land two minutes later: five rounds gun fire from the three New Zealand field regiments, the 58th Field, RA, and the 7th Medium. Then, with suitable corrections, all these guns and the 146th Field as well fired another five rounds gun fire. The total number of rounds was 1240 and the effect was devastating. There was rarely more than six yards between shell holes, as the CRA discovered when he inspected the ground later. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Funnily enough my exclamation marks. I always thought that the Allies best arm was the artillery firepower : )

Damm Joe, how come you are so more succinct then I

yacinator One of the great things in ACW was surely the appreciation of the terrain and taking posssession of key points to support your sides defence and/or attack. Getting troops to the positions in a fit state to fight would be a challenge, let alone the ability to "see" the shape of the battlefield to get the best disposition of your troops. If you are involved in hand to hand combat then someone is desparate , made a mistake , or its difficult terrain. Arguably mistakes are much more final as the speed of troops means rapid reinforcement can only be possible if adequate thought to their placement was given early in the game. I think it would be an excellent era - and would translate relatively easily to European wars of the period.

From the Maori sit this fair choked me up [slightly off topic but it does relate to prev. post] Besides the decorations awarded to the rank and file Colonel Bennett received the DSO, Captain Awatere an MC, and Lieutenant Ngarimu a posthumous VC, the first Maori to be so honoured. The citation upon which the Victoria Cross was awarded to Second-Lieutenant Te Moana-Nui-a-Kiwa Ngarimu read: During the action at the TEBAGA GAP on 26 March 1943, 2/Lieut Ngarimu commanded a platoon in an attack upon the vital hill feature, Point 209. He was given the task of attacking and capturing an underfeature forward of Point 209 itself and held in considerable strength by the enemy. He led his men with great dash and determination straight up the face of the hill undeterred by the intense mortar and MG fire which was causing considerable casualties. Displaying courage and leadership of the highest order he was himself first on the hill crest, personally annihilating in the process at least two enemy MG posts. In the face of such a determined attack the remainder of the enemy fled, but further advance was impossible as the reverse slope was swept by MG fire from Point 209 itself. Under cover of a most intense mortar barrage the enemy counter-attacked in an attempt to regain their dug-in positions. 2/Lieut Ngarimu ordered his men to stand up and engage the enemy man for man. This they did with such good effect that the attackers were literally mown down, 2/Lieut Ngarimu personally killing several. During this encounter he was twice wounded, once by rifle fire in the shoulder and later by shrapnel in the leg and though urged by both his Coy Comd and Bn Comd to go out he refused to do so saying he should stay a little while with his men. He stayed till he met his death the following morning. Darkness found this officer and his depleted platoon lying on the rocky face of the forward slope of the hill feature with the enemy in a similar position on the reverse slope about twenty yards distant. Time and again throughout the night the enemy launched fierce attacks in an attempt to dislodge 2/Lieut Ngarimu and his men, but each counter-attack was beaten off entirely by 2/Lieut Ngarimu's inspired leadership. – 279 – During one of these counter-attacks the enemy, by using hand grenades, succeeded in piercing a certain part of the line. Without hesitation 2/Lieut Ngarimu rushed to the threatened area and those of the enemy he did not kill he drove back with stones and with his tommy gun. During another determined counter-attack by the enemy, part of his line broke. Yelling out orders and encouragement, he went to his dislodged men, rallied them and led them in a fierce onslaught back into their old positions. All through the night, between attacks, he and his men were heavily harassed by MG and mortar fire, but 2/Lieut Ngarimu watched his line very carefully, cheering his men on and inspiring them by his gallant personal conduct. Morning found him still in possession of the hill feature but only he and two unwounded other ranks remained. Reinforcements were sent up to him. In the morning the enemy again counter-attacked and it was during this attack that 2/Lieut Ngarimu was killed. He was killed on his feet, defiantly facing the enemy with his tommy gun at his hip; and as he fell he came to rest almost on top of those of the enemy who had fallen to his gun just before he fell to theirs. The hill feature that 2/Lieut Ngarimu had so gallantly defended was strewn with enemy dead and was a bold witness of the great courage and fortitude with which 2/Lieut Ngarimu had fought and died. There is ample confirmation in captured enemy documents that the citation is, if anything, an understatement. A report by II/433 Regiment of the fighting at Point 209 on 26–27 March reads: By the night 26/27 Mar. the regrouping of the battalion on Pt. 209 was at the following stage; Bn HQ and 8 Coy on Pt 209, 6 and 7 Coys on the high features in front of 209, 5 Coy in reserve behind 209. [The report goes on to describe the preliminary bombardment, the infantry attack, and the destroying of four tanks, three by anti-tank-gun fire and one by a sticky bomb.] In the meantime the situation on 7 Coy's front had become serious—enemy infantry had succeeded in occupying a spur running out from 7 Coy's feature. 6 Coy's reserve platoon, under S/Sergt Schmidt was sent up to 7 Coy, both as a counter-attack force and to make up for the heavy casualties – 280 – the company had suffered in the barrage. In a fluctuating hand to hand struggle (which even developed into a fight with stones after most of the weapons had been knocked out) 3 Pl 6 Coy and Schlinder Pl of 7 Coy took and lost the ridge several times. S/Sgt Schmidt and Sgt Schlinder distinguished themselves by particular initiative. Early on the morning of 27 Mar 7 Coy received a further reinforcement—a platoon of 5 Coy under Lieut Noack, which was sent up with orders to clear the enemy finally off the ridge forward of 7 Coy. The platoon suffered heavy casualties but did not achieve its object. Only half the troops engaged in the counter-attacks came back. Lieut Behrens, Lieut Noack, S/Sgt Schmidt and Sgt Schlinder—that is to say, all the platoon commanders—were either killed or wounded. (signed) Drechsler, Lieut.

That link to the Maori battalion is brilliant - sample: "The departure from Medenine was to be carried out with all deceptive measures—fernleaf and other typical New Zealand signs on vehicles obliterated; titles and badges removed from uniforms; at every halt vehicles were to be turned facing the way from which they had come so that the setting sun would not reflect from their windscreens." Slightly irritating is despite the book being in electronic format nobody managed to pick up place names spelt entirely in lower case! Amazons A possible source for the story of Amazons might be based on one of the peoples of China who, still, run a completely matriarchal society. Menfolk live away and are invited down at night for nookie and have to leave in the morning. I know you guys are saying gosh this sounds like hell : ) An older women is the leader and effectively they are very extended family groups with all the women together. The history for this goes back thousands of years - I cannot recall much else. It was all from a documentary series on the peoples of China on the Chinese international channel available free to view in Europe ... and probably the rest of the world : )

Zarquon Sheesh! if you are talking sensible then I am going to throw my rattle out of the pram! So there. Of course I agree with you 100%. But in the gut I feel that they ought to have on a backburner another wonderful engine being warmed and I think it should be ACW [to 1870?]. Personally I think they are close to perfection* - additional layers of complexity comes at a price and it is normally playability. *the games good too

Atiff "IDF = InDirect Fire, doesn't it? Like DF = Direct Fire. I've been using both for years with no questions." A plea for unambiguous headings. I was distinctly avoiding this subect as post-war use by the Israeli Defence Force was not interesting to me. In general abbrevs. and acronyms etc . should be avoided in headings as what is common knowledge is never quite as common as you thought, particularly on forums with both international and noobie participation! As it happens a very interesting topic - thanks for raising it.

Harry Ink Re point 3. I think there is a certain point at which you say am I better of keeping my force together to attack en masse when he attempts an attack or do I defend seriously. This can depend on your force make-up and Nationality and what period. I am a great believer in sharpshooters for early intelligence. Especially nice if you can infiltrate to kill the art. spotters!!!. Regardless of that getting troops or A/c's forward does make eventual attacks evaluation quicker. If you play as Russians a lot you tend to find your infantry cheap and tough to dislodge, cheap mortars and machine guns. This certainly colours my thinking when playing them. In an attack defense QB I deliberately underspent as the defender so I could afford 5 Valentine IX and with the 6pdr gun they put paid to most of the opponents armour so I fully appreciate the fun/point of being able to have an active defence.

OOps! being more helpful : ) http://central.masterzen.net and scroll down! Futhermore .. Poor Old Spike has posted several interesting shots there of how visible units are in various cover. And other interesting jpgs worthy of download as a reminder. Play the current WC2 game and then read the AAR's. My brother who is a demon used to practice by buying the AI a load of tanks and himself one and go scuttling about practicing tank speed, reaction times and killing tanks as and when he could. The point being to practice and perfect. I have been boring and worked out rates of fire for crack crews versus regulars etc. All of these things add up to getting better. Knowing the capability of your guns for dealing with German tanks is vitally important and I am often amazed at people not checking throught h Russian and Allied guns to find the ones the Germans need to be scared of. : )

But then again some scenarios suck! I am playing one now where the information is " more of your forces will be along shortly" . For Pete's sake I should know what the rest of my force consists of!!!!! I think you might be playing your battles on smallish maps wish can be very lopsided. I have played 50 plus on large or huge maps whereby thats lots of room to sneak about and tactics to decide. I agree with GoJ about never fighting an even battle and with huge maps , provided they are not billiard smooth, it does mean you can attempt to achieve local superiority over part of his force. BTW post Jan 1943 the tanks point situation in CMBB is probably the fair to both sides On the realism stakes I would have said it is always been possible on breakthroughs for equalish forces to bump into each other. It is no doubt true attack defense was more common but then again large maps and decent size forces , 2-3k, means that even the defence can, as in real life, have a defence reserve able to move without being under direct fire. So many of the small maps and small points means the whole battlefield can provide minimal cover for manouevering. However scenarios Counterattack at Galatas - truly excellent Approach to Sevastapol ...... 45 turns and virtually unwinnable even against the AI And look to the head of the forum - one of these messages has a sticky link to the MZO site and take part in the War College games - or read the last games AARs some are very instructive. Happy playing

Another convert! Unsolicited testimonials time "This is so much faster now. Thanks for insisting, I really didn't look close enough at my first try at pbem helper. Now I just need to start thinking about my turns more carefully, rather than just staring in awe at the speed... A recent Linux user who wanted to keep his emailer ---some months persuading Yippee!

gvb Absolutely right as to the reasons for spalling. Book is ISBN number 1 86126 259 0 It was the 100mm Model 1944 the basis of the gun in the SU100. They were test firing at Elefant hulks. At a 1000 metres it penetrates 5.9 inches of vertical steel.

BTW I am just reading Ganders book on ATG's and he was talking about , I think it was, a 100 mm gun. It could not pentrate Jagdtigers but the shock knocked so much armour [spalling] around the turret that it would kill the crew even if it did not set off some ammo.

Just learnt today that you can you use the trusted mode, 2-, with the text files only and do not use the PBM native file. Brilliant - this was to accomodate a Linux user who did not wish to change his email program! LordCalvert Yes I get the different email address comment on some of my players -- I will work up the energy to look into it! No, it does take place on the 5th order but things can be confused in non-scenarios where you start the game as 000 or 001 which does bugger up converstion as to when to switch. Basically whenever you get a movie followed by a move. >"Another thing, both my opponent and I have recieved a message saying something like "The file is for a different version of CMAK". I wonder do you have your demo version still lurking and that has not been disabled in your top section so it tries to open that first CMAKgame it comes to?. When you are doing it manually you bypass this problem!

Unzip should auto unload the lot!