Treeburst155

Thanks for the updates, guys! I really enjoy reading them.

These scenarios will vary from small to medium I believe. I don't think there will be many, if any, that go over 30 turns. It's difficult to be more specific than that since they aren't finished yet.

Response so far has been overwhelming. I'm getting six requests for applications per hour on average! If this keeps up I will launch up to three separate Wild Bill tourneys utilizing the same scenarios; with the winners of each to have a playoff at the end. WineCape's wine would go to the ultimate winner. It's gonna be good!!

OK, here's how we stand now: KelsieD..........279...6...46.50 Kiwi Joe.........232...3...77.33 Stalin's Organ...189...4...47.25 aka_tom_w........178...4...44.50 Sajer............149...4...37.25 GClement.........124...2...62.00 The_Capt..........56...2...28.00 Sock Monkey.......28...1...28.00 Sorted by average: Kiwi Joe.........232...3...77.33 GClement.........124...2...62.00 Stalin's Organ...189...4...47.25 KelsieD..........279...6...46.50 aka_tom_w........178...4...44.50 Sajer............149...4...37.25 The_Capt..........56...2...28.00 Sock Monkey.......28...1...28.00 Kiwi Joe needs to be stopped cold. If the 5 of you who still haven't finished your game with him can keep him down to 40 points or so we'll have a really tight race here. The tourney is moving into the last month now so it's time to get busy if you've only completed a couple games. Labappel, are you going to make it?

Just a clarification here. It is my understanding that Rune MAY contribute a scenario or two to the tourney. I was withholding that news until I knew for sure. I didn't forget you Rune. I just haven't gotten the final word on that yet.

Wow!! That must have been some fight between Stalin and Tom W. Three of four flags contested! The BER must have had them pulling their hair out. IIRC the game ended on turn 26 but could have ended on 21. I will post the updated standings shortly. Thanks Tom for helping Sock Monkey out with the email addresses.

Presenting...... A WineCape Production Directed by Treeburst155 Featuring 8 new, never before seen, historical, attack/defend scenarios by: Wild Bill Wilder!!! Two-player testing coordinated by Keith Yeates Here it is folks, "Wild Bill Wilder's Rumblings Of War" Tournament. No meeting engagements and no ahistorical force picking! You will face realistic tactical problems gleaned from the pages of WW II history. You will attack. You will defend. You may even get the opportunity to launch serious counterattacks or find yourself defending against such! WineCape is providing six bottles of fine South African Wine for the winner's victory celebration! They will be shipped directly to the winner, postage paid. Thanks, WineCape! There will be no other prize donations accepted from the community or offered by me. Why? Just to play in this tourney is the real prize. The tournament will begin no sooner than September 15. Wild Bill and his testers feel they can be done by then; BUT, if they need more time to do the job right the tourney will start later. There will be nine players allowed into the tournament. Each will play every other participant one time using a different scenario for each game. Your points will be accumulated from game to game with the highest total at the end declared the winner. You will have no choice as to which side you play. I will be keeping track of how many games you have played as the attacker and TRY, as the tourney moves along, to distribute the attack/defend duties equally among players. This will not be easy to do (at least I haven't thought of any good way). It is possible that you may find yourself on the attack (or defense) five or even six times out of the eight games. The scenarios will be balanced so this is not really a problem. You take the hand that is dealt, just like real commanders. Although open to the entire community, this tourney is for those who consider CM a hobby AND have the time to pursue the hobby actively. Players will have only 120 days to complete their eight games. The games can be played PBEM or TCP/IP but no player is required to agree to a TCP/IP game. You must be willing to PBEM if your opponent wishes. You will arrange your matches amongst yourselves using a Contact List which I will provide. The tourney officially begins when the Contact Lists are sent out. When you have arranged a game, email me and I will send the scenario to the German player who will start the game. There will be up to 10 bonus points given for AARs sent to WineCape and myself. Do not post them to the tourney thread as you will ruin the surprises for others (spoilers). This makes it possible to receive 80 bonus points during the tourney. "Grading" of these AARs will be done by WineCape and myself. The grading will be very liberal. You don't have to be a top notch writer to get the full 10 points. Give us a fairly detailed account of the game from your perspective and you've got the 10 points. Brief AARs will see less than 10 points awarded. All AARs are due no later than seven days after the official end of the tournament. AARs will be distributed by me to those who have finished that scenario. Please, no spoiler AARs/DARs on the thread! How do you get into this tourney? The first thing you must do is email me at Mikeman@cablelynx.com. I will then send you an application with a few questions on it (nothing personal). Answer the questions and send the application back to me. WineCape and I will then choose nine people from the applications. The deadline for COMPLETED applications is September 7th. You should email me at least a few days before that time so you are not in a rush to make the deadline. Take your time answering the questions. WineCape and I anticipate far more people will be interested in this tournament than the nine that can be admitted. Your answers to the questions are how we will decide who gets in. Wild Bill and his testers will have put in well over 100 hours designing and testing the scenarios for this tournament. You can put a little time and effort into getting into it. As I said earlier, the prize for this tournament is really just getting to take part in it. A great big THANK YOU is owed to Wild Bill Wilder, Testing Coordinator Keith Yeates, his testers, and WineCape for providing the fine prize. Thanks,guys!! I am now accepting requests for applications. My email again is: Mikeman@cablelynx.com [ 08-02-2001: Message edited by: Treeburst155 ]

Veeerrrry interesting. Thanks for the tip.

Well, that's good enough for me. Case closed as far as I'm concerned. Thanks again, Steve, for checking that out with Charles.

News from the front! MickOZ has defeated Bill Hardenberger 57-32. Congratulations, MickOZ, on your first tourney victory!! Texas Toast has bounced back from his loss to Fionn with a win over Jarmo, 59-41. Congratulations, Texas Toast!! Here's the updated standings sorted by average game score: Claymore............99...1...99.00 Fionn..............539...7...77.00 Moon................60...1...60.00 Jshandorf...........58...1...58.00 Texas Toast........158...3...52.67 SuperTed...........154...3...51.33 Jarmo...............41...1...41.00 M. Dorosh..........150...4...37.50 Bill Hardenberger...70...2...35.00 MickOZ.............121...4...30.25 John Kettler........20...1...20.00 Berlichtingen.......70...4...17.50

Triumvir, You don't need Stats 101 for this. The more test shots you fire the lower your margin of error. A stats person could probably tell you the margin of error for the tests run above but they are within +/- 5 percent I'll bet. I would hardly call 104 shots anecdotal. [ 07-30-2001: Message edited by: Treeburst155 ]

We've been down to eight in this tourney for some time. The other one has nine contestants remaining although Labappel has not completed a game yet.

No, Labappel hasn't dropped out. I just have no results to post for him.

A regular Stuart crew moving fast on open terrain lateral to his targets (turret 60-120 degrees)at a range of 215-245 meters hits what he aims at 43.3% of the time. They hit 45 times out of 104 shots with one track hit included in my latest test. Them boys is good!!! Imagine what a crack crew could do.

My Stuart was running laterally to his victims. His first shots were fired with turret about 45 degrees to right. His last shots were fired at about 135 degrees. Lots of tracking involved. No running straight at the targets. The turret moved this far in one minute of firing. Roughly 1.5 degrees per second on the average. [ 07-29-2001: Message edited by: Treeburst155 ]

Congratulations, Stalin's Organ!! Here's how it stands now: KelsieD..........279...6...46.50 Kiwi Joe.........232...3...77.33 Sajer............149...4...37.25 aka_tom_w........142...3...47.33 Stalin's Organ...137...3...45.67 GClement.........124...2...62.00 The_Capt..........56...2...28.00 Sock Monkey.......28...1...28.00 Sorted by average: Kiwi Joe.........232...3...77.33 GClement.........124...2...62.00 aka_tom_w........142...3...47.33 KelsieD..........279...6...46.50 Stalin's Organ...137...3...45.67 Sajer............149...4...37.25 The_Capt..........56...2...28.00 Sock Monkey.......28...1...28.00

I ran my test until I had a total of 107 shots fired by the Stuart (the end of ten runs). The little guy hit 33 out of 107 with 5 track hits counted in the 33 hits.

That extra 1% you got was probably because of the larger profile of the Tiger compared to my PzIVs. My victims were getting off some smoke in the last 30 seconds too which caused the Stuart to lose LOS and the targetting line briefly. I figure that just cut down on the average ROF. The hit percentage is still the same.

Steve, see my edit to my previous post; and get some sleep time in this week.

My test was also done under lab conditions, but even for lab conditions I think the Stuart hit percentage is too high. I will run tests giving the targets some ammo to fight back with. I will run the test until the Stuart has managed 100 shots. Since the Stuart will probably be killed often I will have to run it many times. Edit: The Stuart doesn't live long enough to test, even against conscripts. LOL! Here's my point. In an actual CM battle a Stuart has a 31% chance of hitting an average size stationary enemy vehicle at 500 meters while fast moving over clear terrain for AS LONG AS HE LIVES. If the Stuart lives long enough to get off one round the chances are 31% at 500 meters that he will hit that enemy AFV somewhere WITH THAT ONE ROUND. This is the kind of behavior that started this thread, I'm sure. I've seen that 31% chance pay off too many times, probably 31% of the times the situation comes up. Thanks, Steve, for mentioning this to Charles. I really appreciate it, whether the game is tweaked or not. It's still a great game and you guys are great for listening to our gripes. [ 07-28-2001: Message edited by: Treeburst155 ]

Even a highly accurate weapon can't hit a target unless the gunner/shooter can put the crosshairs ON the target. At 500 meters, over clear terrain, at 15-25 miles per hour I think the Stuart gunners should have just that sort of problem. Hit a PZIV one out of ten times under those conditions with regular crews? Yeah, that sounds plausible. However, my test showed a 31% hit rate under those conditions. I refuse to accept that as accurate modelling of a WWII tank with a gyro-stabilizer. It goes against my tanking experience in 1975-78.

A quick test of Hellcats convinces me they are virtually harmless at 500 meters while fast moving. This makes me happy. Stuarts however are a different story. It sure is tempting to blame it on the gyro-stabilizer. Perhaps the Stuarts are getting a break because their "fast" speed is lower. More testing is needed.

No comments on my test? Look at that high hit percentage at 450-620 meters. I've got more than twice the hit percentage at twice the range mentioned by OPFOR in his post above. I didn't test Hellcats but look at the Stuarts! If I had the time I'd test those Daimlers and Greyhounds too. There's too much killing going on while bouncing cross country at 15-25 mph. OPFOR6 wrote: I agree with BTS that the code is correct for the scale. Moving 15-25 mph and getting a 13% chance of a hit at 250 yards is in the ballpark. The large drop off due to range is the key part. At 250 yards the target is much bigger and easier to track than at 400 or 500. [ 07-27-2001: Message edited by: Treeburst155 ]

My Test: 4 green PZ IVs, ammoless, buttoned, and facing the edge of the map in a corner of their setup zone 40 meters apart. One regular M5A1 gyro Stuart starting on one end of his setup zone and ordered to fast move the entire length of it. Trees prevent LOS to the Mark IVs for 200 meters allowing the Stuart to get up to speed. No other units on map. The Stuart must spot the PzIVs himself. The map is pool table flat with no obstructions other than the row of trees that allow the Stuart to get up to speed before spotting can take place. Each test was two minutes long. I ran it 10 times. The Stuart spotted at least one of the Mark IVs by the last 15 seconds of the first turn in all cases, having cleared the trees. Since fast move orders were already given I just hit GO for turn two. The map was long enough that the Stuart could travel and fire the entire second minute without running out of map. The Stuart hit an enemy tank 33 times out of 107 shots at ranges varying from 450-620 meters before the end of turn 2. 5 of these hits were track hits. The Germans used smoke in the latter half of turn 2 and began moving too. A regular crew, moving fast, off road, hit with almost 31% of their shots. I think this is quite a high percentage, even with a gyro. What should the percentage be? I'd be happy if it were reduced to 10% but I'll bet 5% would be even more realistic.

Peace and Pestilence to you all! I have ventured forth from my province in the Outerboards to thank the creator of the Abbott_Gyrene scenario for his fine work. I don't know who made the map or picked the units I am using, but I do know the battle was created by someone dwelling in this fetid abomination you call the Mutha Beautiful. My PBEM partners and I thank you. I must leave you now and return home. Feel free to continue your discussion of vegetables. If you really want to clear up all doubt as to the definition of a vegetable just look in the mirror. With that I bid you, Die-A-Lot Now!!