Treeburst155

I only used 13 Cromwells, not 17 Churchhills! What's gamey about that? My forces arrayed against mPisi are even more historical. At least they were. He blew lots of my historical forces apart last turn with a gamey Cromwell, including a KT! Not only that he's got at least 3 Cromwells on the map. How gamey can you get?! I would never buy a boatload of gamey Cromwells. Geez!!

Jshandorf, Claymore must agree to start a game with you before I can issue a map. If you want to play blind he must agree to that too before I can advise you of the month to choose your forces from.

Ooops!! I guess Sledge59's withdrawal didn't do him a whole lot of good then. Probably because he didn't cause many enemy casualties to offset the 1/3 of his force that he lost. Thanks, Mike8g, for filling me in here. It might have been days before I figured out I already had the score recorded. On the weekends these little tourneys keep me quite busy.

Ah, a successful withdrawal. Good move Sledge59. Minimize his victory. So what was the final score so I can update the stats?

I've decided to help mPisi set things on fire. I started with one of his Challengers since they're such gamey, tungsten toting, ugly tanks.

Hi TeAch! I missed that thread completely. I like the BER the way it is now so there is absolutely no warning of which turn will be the last. It is easy enough to set up the game with an extra turn for the Ceasefire orders. Keep it like it is!! Treeburst155 out.

Stug III scores Major Victory over Tincan in his first tourney win! The final score was 56-20. Congratulations, Stug III!! Updated standings below: tank buster...205...4...51.3 Mike8g...179...3...59.7 Tincan...133...4...33.3 Fangorn...127...2....3.5 chuckle...122...3...40.7 StuG III...82...2...41.0 Mr Spkr....78...1...78.0 Sledge...14...1....4.0 Here I've sorted by average score per game, just for fun: Mr Spkr...78...1...78.0 Fangorn...127...2...63.5 Mike8g...179...3...59.7 tank buster...205...4...51.3 StuG III...82...2...41.0 chuckle...122...3...40.7 Tincan...133...4...33.3 Sledge...14...1...14.0

Just for fun I opened IE explorer and my email program and played a few turns of CM, all with System Monitor keeping track of free physical memory. With 256 MB of RAM I never dipped below 103 MB free while playing the game. I've got vcache set at a max of 32MB which has something to do with it I'm sure. My point is that 256 MB is more than enough for CM. Treeburst155 out. [ 07-15-2001: Message edited by: Treeburst155 ]

I've been playing with the BER and learned something interesting. If you set a game say to 20 +/- 2 the BER will ALWAYS call for a ceasefire by Turn 22. I ran the test on 30 different files. In other words it will always call a ceasefire by the last turn you set the QB for in the game. In our example above the only thing that could EVER happen on turn 22 is that both sides would give Ceasefire orders. In effect, the game only lasts a maximum of 21 turns. This is what happens if you check the BER at the BEGINNING of the turn. Also important, using the example above, is that when checking the BER at the beginning of a turn you can end up checking it 5 times. The BER does this. Now, if you do like I am doing and check the BER at the END of a turn you get an odd situation. It is possible that you would be due to check the BER after the game has already ended! The BER still has one check left on it but the game is over as far as the CM program is concerned. This tells me that the BER is supposed to be checked at the BEGINNING of a turn. Using the example above we would make the first BER check between the turn 17 movie and the turn 18 orders phase. IOW, the beginning of turn 18. The most interesting thing is the fact that a game set to go a max of say 22 turns is really only a 21 turn game at the most. Turn 22 is simply a ceasefire turn which results in an AAR screen with no movie for any other orders given in turn 22. Another way to put all this is to say that when using the BER the game will ALWAYS end in a mutual Ceasefire at one point or another unless somebody surrenders early. If you want a game to go 20 turns +/-2 you should really set the QB for 23 turns and set up the BER file for 21 +/- 2. This way the earliest the game could end is at the COMPLETION of turn 18 and the longest it could go is to the COMPLETION of turn 22. This is what we intend when we set up a game for 20 +/-2, right? Turn 23 would simply be a ceasefire turn with no movie if it went that far. Now read this again if you're thoroughly confused. It's hard to explain because it IS confusing. LOL!!! Teach or BradleyH will correct me if I'm wrong about this in some way. I'm not reporting a bug or complaining. I'm just explaining how the BER works for those of you with thick skulls who may have been baffled like I was. If you don't use the BER, at least for QBs, you're missing out on a great deal of fun. Treeburst155 out. [ 07-15-2001: Message edited by: Treeburst155 ]

Mick, I replied to your test message and also sent File 83. I'm getting your stuff just fine. I think your problem may be just incoming mail. To All, We have 21 battles in progress, 6 completed, and 10 awaiting purchases. That leaves 153 matchups uninitiated. It's gonna be a long war, but it will be glorious!

This just in from the front! Mike8g has beaten Sledge 86-14. Congratulations Mike8g!! Here's the updated standings. It's shaping up to be a good race. tank buster...205...4...51.3 Mike8g...179...3...59.7 Fangorn...127...2...63.5 chuckle...122...3...40.7 Tincan...113...3...37.7 Mr Spkr...78...1...78.0 StuG III...26...1...26.0 Sledge...14...1...14.0

Here's the updated standings after Kiwi Joe's victory over KelsieD. Congratulations, KiwiJoe!! KelsieD...279...6...46.50 Kiwi Joe...147...2...73.50 aka_tom_w...142...3...47.33 Sajer...134...3...44.67 GClement...124...2...62.00 Stalin's Organ...65...2...32.50 The_Capt...56...2...28.00 Sock Monkey...0...0 Labappel...0...0

I'd estimate he's torched at least 20 city buildings. I had to upgrade to 1.2 Ghz just to watch the smoke and be able to play. My wife is very mad at mPisi right now.

The BadCo Endgame Randomizer is not connected in any way with the CM executable itself. It is totally independent. I've been using it regularly and it really adds to the game. I mean it REALLY makes the ending more fun in QBs.

LOL!! Go get him, John! See if you can bring down his average a bit. Wedding Cake Hill!? Turn your flags off and it won't look like that. It's supposed to be prime ground for observation of the surrounding area. That's why you're fighting over it. Geez, I should have written a briefing. Wedding Cake Hill....mumble...mumble...IT'S HILL 197!! [ 07-13-2001: Message edited by: Treeburst155 ]

Me, gamey?! I'm just trying to kick some ass, unlike some who just want to singe eyebrows with a little harmless fire.

This is an interesting question, Tom. The German player still selects Combined Arms at the TOP of the QB menu per CAL rules. The interesting thing is the next item down on the QB menu. If the German goes "unrestricted", his points in each category are much different than if he chooses "Gebirgsjaegers" on the menu. It breaks down like this: Unrestricted: Inf 930, Support 372, Vehicles 375, Armor 300, Arty 225 Gebirgsjaeger: Inf 1,500, Support 600, Arty 225, no points alloted for vehicles and armor. I've never noticed this before. The German player is allowed much more flexibility if he is "restricted" to Gebirgsjaegers as opposed to using the "unrestricted" menu item. In the more common "unresticted" game the Gebirgsjaeger player has points allocated for vehicles and armor where there are none available. He must max out every other category to spend his points. Under the "Gebirgsjaeger" restriction he can buy all infantry if he wants. I can put together a force I'm happy with out of either setting, but there's much more flexibility with the Gebirgsjaeger setting. Gebirgsjaegers by there very nature are somewhat immune to the restrictions of the combined arms setting since they CAN'T buy vehicles or armor. All their points will have to go to the other categories no matter what. Using the "unrestricted" force restriction does limit the German player more than using the "Gebirgsjaeger" force restriction as mentioned above. How's that for confusing? The question is, which of the force restriction choices on the QB menu should be used, unrestricted or Gebirgsjaeger? If the German is forced to use "unrestricted" the Allied player WILL face lots of support units such as panzerschrecks, and MGs, and the two towed guns. The German player will also be maxed (as far as possible) on his arty. If allowed to use the "Gebirgsjaeger" restriction the Allied player could find himself fighting a full 1,500 points of SMG companies. This would not be too smart for the German player to do IMO. This is not a big deal IMO, but it is interesting. If the Allied player sets up the game he will either have to use the unrestricted force type for the German player or he will have to KNOW to select Gebirgsjaegers for his opponent [ 07-13-2001: Message edited by: Treeburst155 ]

Hi Tom! I had a feeling I'd hear from you on this. I know of no CAL rule, optional or otherwise, that provides for an infantry only battle. Second, a pure Gebirgsjaeger force is within the Short 75, Panther 76, Recon, and Heavy Armor rules. Gebirgsjaegers get no vehicles and no armor. They are allowed towed guns, but can't use them because they can't buy trucks to tow them. This keeps the mountain troops pretty much out of action for CAL battles. This is a shame IMO. By allowing the mountain troops to have two towed guns they have a somewhat better chance of holding up against a combined arms force in good visibility. The odds are still against them under those conditions IMO. It is realistic for Gebirgsjaegers to have towed guns, but not realistic for them to have vehicles. I limited them to two guns because the player doesn't have to buy vehicles for them. If I negotiated a Short 75 game and my enemy showed up with Gebirgsjaegers and a couple AT guns I'd be delighted UNLESS visibility was poor due to weather and/or terrain. For the German to gamble on poor visibility in a random weather game is VERY risky. Look at it this way. We've taken expensive pure SMG platoons and allowed them to have two AT guns. The guns will help if visibility is good, but the platoons are SOL when it comes to HE from AFVs. If visibility is bad the platoons fare better but the guns are useless! In poor visibility the guns would not acquire targets from their setup zone. They would have to be moved very close to the action. That would take half the game with no towing vehicles! Before this rule addition Gebirgsjaegers were allowed under any CAL game, even heavy armor. All I've done is give them a little long range AT capability (that can hardly move)should they find themselves in a good visibility situation. I'd take combined arms over Gebirgsjaegers with two towed guns in conditions of good visibility any day. The entire German game hinges on those two guns taking out most of the enemy armor. I wouldn't even try Gebirgsjaegers with zero towed guns in good visibility. That's the point of the new rule, to make it somewhat viable for a German player with big cajones to use Gebirgsjaegers in random or clear weather. You asked whether the Allied player would know about his opponent choosing Gebirgsjaegers. I never mention revealing force types when I negotiate games. I like to surprise and be surprised. If my opponent brings it up then I tell him, as long as he tells me what force type he is using. I've found that people are split on this issue so I go either way. Even if you don't agree with my tactical assessment of the effect of the two added towed guns and Gebirgsjaegers in general consider this: The ONLY reason Gebirgsjaegers cannot field towed guns under CAL is because they can't buy trucks to tow them. This is a another hole in the rules which we have just plugged up. You might want to ask Kiwi Joe to reveal his force type if you haven't already done so.

Stalin, I've got a proposition for you. I'll put 1,500 pts. of Gebirgsjaegers, without towed guns, up against any 1,500 point combined arms combo you can come up with according to these tourney rules (CAL+)and I will win as long as we fight at dawn in the fog (or worse). I will use the "combined arms" setting and Gebirgsjaegers only. You of course must use the "combined arms" setting too. Let me know and I'll send you a setup. BTW, the default moderate trees, small hills, and village will work for me. How about dry ground and any date you want? This will minimize the chances of your Super Pershings getting stuck and aid your Wasps in flaming me out. Never underestimate the power of CM Gebirgsjaegers!! [ 07-13-2001: Message edited by: Treeburst155 ]

Judge Treeburst155 shall now rule on the question of Gebirgsjaegers and towed guns. The following addition (improvement) to the CAL Rules is now in effect for this tournament: Gebirgjaegers may buy towed guns that are available to them without providing transportation for said guns. Because this makes guns cheaper to acquire for the mountain troops they are only allowed to purchase TWO guns max for our 1,500 point tourney battles. The Honorable Judge Treeburst155 out.

For realistic and fair meeting engagements (is there really such a thing?) I'd want to play Panther 76 CAL rules with one company of Allied airborne allowed with any other single force type. Throw in a little random weather and you're good to go. Treeburst155 out.

Thanks for the AAR, Claymore! Three hits in one second. Wow!! This just in from the front. Fionn has soundly defeated SuperTed 84-16. Congratulations Fionn!! This gives Fionn a two game average of 82.5. These are winning stats if he can keep it up. SuperTed is not hurt too badly by the defeat because of his decisive victory over Michael Dorosh in his other completed game. SuperTed's average is 50.5 with his "Fionn Game" behind him. Players who have completed more than one game so far are: Berlichtingen, Michael Dorosh, SuperTed, and Fionn. Thanks guys for getting a jump on things. As always, tourney stats can be found at the link below, thanks to Michael Dorosh. http://wargames.freehosting.net/invite.htm

mPisi is burning down every building within 300 meters of the VL saving my from having to blow up the same buildings with my King Tigers. I have only caught a glimpse of him so far as we move into turn 11, but if he keeps burning down buildings I'll know where he is through process of elimination. My 88s will simply pulverize anything that's not burning within 300 meters of the VL. It will be awhile before I'm ready to hit him. Those KTs move slow you know.

I would like to see a game ending "Withdraw" command as an alternative to surrender. I would not use it until I had manually withdrawn my people to points of relative safety however. Withdrawal can be real tricky sometimes. Still, a withdraw command used in this manner could save many emails back and forth, especially if the map edges are relatively far away.

The Claymore/Berlichtingen results have been recorded on my spreadsheet. Michael Dorosh has been informed so he can update his tourney stats web page. Congratulations Claymore!! Stats are here: http://wargames.freehosting.net/invite.htm