Diceman

What Le Tondu and Xavier said. Now I may change my mind once I get my hands on CMBB, but bringing CMBO up to CMBB standards is #1 on my willing to pay for list. More realistic building code including cellars and tougher buildings comes second. Multi turret tanks is another willing to pay for upgrade. Unique buildings just don't get very high on my play enhancement list.

PZ III. Such a gorgeous machine. I'll think I'll set something up against lend lease vehicles.

I can't think of a vehicle that mounted the .50 cal internally, so as such it would sound the same - except for the cursing. I've never fired a .50 cal that wasn't mounted on a large tracked vehicle but I have done everything but fire the .50 cal from the tripod. The tripod is designed with shoes that are supposed to dig into the dirt. Now you can dislodge the tripod from the dirt just trying to cock the damm thing, so I imagine it would come out of the dirt fairly easily while firing it, and when it does, well you could just imagine the cursing. Hmmm. Maybe that's why they only let us fire the thing mounted on a vehicle.

No that would not be nice. What is it with you guys ?!? Are you so much in love with those crappy Shermans or what ? Do a comparison on the performance of the Lend-lease Sherman and the T-34 when CM : BB's out. The results may prove a shock to you... [qb]

Here's my latest scenario for the public's enjoyment. Before I release it though, I'd like some feedback. Checkout the axis brief, and if it sounds interesting e-mail me and I'll send it to you. As a side-note, this scenario is designed as a player vs. player engagement. It is not possible for the AI to play the American side. Patton’s Third Army Crossed the Rhine River on the 23rd of March, 1945. The 5th Infantry Division using assault rafts was the first to cross in the early morning hours. This scenario depicts that crossing. You’ve just received word of a frantic message from your scout on the west side of the Rhine near Oppenheimen. He claims Patton’s entire Third Army has surrounded him and is preparing to cross the river! Obviously he’s been caught sleeping on the job. The fact that he’ll be dead or captured before daylight is little solace as you knock the sleep out of your eyes and try to gather your thoughts. What resources do I have immediately at my disposal? What do I have in the way of defenses on the east bank of the river? Your heart sinks as the answers come to mind. You only have 5 machine guns covering the entire section of the river. All remaining heavy artillery has been moved north in anticipation of Montgomery’s much telegraphed drive to cross the Rhine there. You’ve assembled your 81mm mortars into a battery, but only have enough ammunition for a few minutes barrage. You have one battalion of infantry in the area you can rouse together in an effort to meat the threat before the Americans can get a foothold on the east bank. The leadership is of good quality but clearly Germany is scraping the bottom of the manpower barrel. Most of your troops barely know one end of a rifle from another. You might also be able to call on a couple of StuGs for direct fire support but that’s it. You get on the horn and make the necessary calls. When will the Americans cross? Will my troops assemble in time? The air is thick with the oppressive weight of impending doom as you drive your kubelwagan up to the east bank to have a look at the situation yourself.

I almost missed it with that CDV box art. Is that some kind of cynical German joke? "So you don't like miss-used backwards "R"s do you? You don't know vhat you don't like! We vill show you vhat you don't like! Amerikan helmets and field gear on the cover an Eastern Front game, you vont like that"!

I see said the blind man to his deaf daughter as he picked up his hammer and saw. So much for assumptions. This time I did a statistical analysis of over 400 hits at a range of 994 meters, 205 hull up, 200 hull down. At this range shot fall and range estimation would be much more critical than at the previously analyzed 547 meters. The method of analysis also relies far less on assumptions. In this case I used a statistically significant sample of over 400 hits. I think the below chart is rather interesting, and answers a lot of concerns including my own. For instance at this range the % chance to hit the turret hull down is only approximately 15% greater than hull up. This does not seem unreasonable to me. There are a couple of statistical anomalies on the chart worth mentioning. For example: hull up gun hits as a % of turret hits is 0.5% higher than the same stat for hull down. Also, there is a statistically significant difference between hull up weak spot hits and hull down weak spot hits. Although the modeled percentage may be different between the two positions, the incidence is low enough that one can assume that a sample of 405 is too low to get an accurate number. The difference in % of gun hits per turret hit can also be written off as sample error. At any rate the below chart should give all concerned a good approximation of hit chances . I also think it backs up Charles' comments on the issue.

How about von Lucke? I haven't heard from him since 1 Aug.

The above screenshot is of a PZIV targeting two Shermans, one hull down, the other hull up. At 547 meters the PZIV has a 35% less chance of hitting the Sherman than if the Sherman were hull up. However, the hull down Sherman presents a 73.3% smaller target based on the numbers I calculated using a 1/76 scale diagram. The % chance of hitting the hull down target is 13.6%, which indecently equates to the % chance of hitting the turret hull up. Isn’t it nice when your math checks out? It is also interesting to note that the Sherman would have a 58.8% greater chance of taking a turret hit hull down than hull up. Now there is some truth to the argument that the odds of a turret hit would be increased due to it being the center of target, however I think that this would be off-set to a great degree by both the size of the target presented, and the greater difficulty in ranging the target both visually and mechanically. I don’t know how BFC came up with the 33% # but I think that the number is a bit high. I would suggest that the base # be much closer to the 13.6%, that is to say - the base chance of a hull down hit should be close to the % chance of a hull up turret hit, at least until the range to target is found. Based on these numbers, if the Sherman were a version with extra hull armor, it would be 59% more likely to survive hull up than hull down, presuming the apposing vehicle could not penetrate the supplemented hull armor. The same could be said for the PZIV. IMHO this does not agree with anecdotal evidence, nor does it agree with WWII or current armor doctrine. Now I don't want to start up a ruckus over this but I'm curious on how BFC handles hull down in CMBB. Statistically Speaking Diceman

Michael[/qb]

You are correct. The round is a tungsten cored APCR round. Unfortunately the book I was thinking of when I made the above statement went back to the library a long time ago, so I can not clear up for myself or anyone else the relationship between muzzle brakes and discarding sabot rounds. Either my memory is faulty or the author made an overly sweeping statement based on problems with a specific round/gun combination, or both. Thanks for correcting that misconception. Cheers Eric Edited for really bad typos. [ August 10, 2002, 08:56 PM: Message edited by: Diceman ]

So far so good. You should probably give credit to BFC for the screen shots you used to make the mod page somewhere in the small print. Can't help you with HTML. My piddlely web sight is the only work I've ever done where I broke the cardinal rule of authorship "don't appoligize for your work." Cheers Eric

One thing not mentioned, is why many guns did not have muzzle brakes. IIRC, in the case of American tank destroyers including the M10, and M18, muzzle brakes were not installed on many of these vehicles because the HVAP discarding sabot round used by these weapon systems was incompatible with muzzle brakes.

Mmmm. Stuarts and Matildas. I wonder how close an approximation we can get to the Desert war with CMBB?

Only one scenario left: Head For The Hills vs. von Lucke. I have no confidence that this will be finished in time at the current rate of 6 e-mail files a month. Hopefully he'll clear a few things off his plate and the pace will pick up.

Heavy Tank, T28, later refered to as T95. Only two produced, 1st one being completed in Sep 45. The second one was destroyed by fire durring trails, so that must be the only one in existance.

Gasp! That's it! That's the Tiger II mod I've been waiting for! This will almost be like playing with the Tiger II model on my desk in CMBO, except your's is better looking. I'm anxiously awaiting this one.

How many of those screenshots are actually new?

If you don't mind, could you add me to the list?

I haven't heard a word from Von Lucke since I don't know how long. Almost done with the last two games I'm playing.

Now does the vehicle fire untill target destroyed, or does it just shoot a couple o frounds and backs off?

Same here, no word from Von Lucke, AKA El Schahin.

New e-mail address: escurlock@surfbest.net Cheers Eric

Yahoo or hotmail maybe?</font>