Holien

Nope not the only one and I see this consistently where 60mm are on map. Until it is tweaked you have to accept it as part of the game. I hope it will get tweaked as it does not seem right but as people have posted the weapon seems to be modelled correctly but maybe the fix is getting the troops to take cover and lay flat. I guess that is not an easy code issue?

Bear in mind that the scenario is broken in terms of Victory Points for the Americans at the moment and George was going to re work it. Not found it on the Repository but I hope George will tweak it soon work allowing. Still a great game but very tough for teh Americans and if you do as is suggested by the briefing you will not be shown as winning. Not a problem if you are comfortable with knowing you did well and not needing the computer to re-affirm that. Give the American side to the better player... IMO Also see thread on best H2H scenarios which has a list of some good games to play. http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=99376

http://www.battlefront.com/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=314&func=fileinfo&id=1576 For those of you wanting to play H2H this work done by Paper Tiger is a must as he has taken original designs and revamped them. I have only just found them and the word needs spreading....

Ohh and while I have just noticed the minefield on the road near the American base line has been moved. IMO it is not unreasonable for the Germans to have placed mines anywhere along the road. And finally but not least thanks for updating the scenarios and posting them to the repository. I have posted on the main forum as I don't think people know about what you have done and it needs a wider audience. If I had known before we had played this as H2H we would have used your version and it would have given my Oppo more choices on how to set up his defence. So thank you for taking the time to update these designs. Cheers H

Paper Tiger why did you change the German Victory conditions in the Buying The Farm update? The new deployment choices for the German player are great, but I think the original victory conditions of <50% Casualties was a better target for the German player and would allow him to withdraw if he so choose. By changing it to <10% you have removed any real chance of the Germans ever obtaining those points and make it more likely that the player will fight to bitter end. I think the original design would allow for more intelligent play and a more interesting scenario... Just my 2p and maybe it was a mistake? Cheers H

Just did a search on buying the Farm and there has been a redesign by Paper Tiger. It can be found here : - http://www.battlefront.com/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=314&func=finishdown&id=1577 It gives the Germans a more simplistic set up allowing the player to choose where to deploy. He has also made some other of the scenarios better for H2H. Here : http://www.battlefront.com/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=314&func=fileinfo&id=1576 There is one change about Buying The Farm that I don't agree with but will take that up on the scenario / design forum. Good to see this has already been changed and I hope anyone playing this will use the new version as better for H2H

Just seen this thread and it ties in with my thread on buying the farm... Bump for others to read if so interested.

**** SPOILERS *** I have just had the pleasure of playing this and while I enjoyed it and at the time I thought I had it tough as the American's I had not seen what the Germans got and the choices for them. I have offered to play it as the Germans to see if I could do any better and I had some cunning plans but all for nought as the Designer has limited what the German player can do and where he can set up. Now I am no designer and there might be things I am missing but why oh why does the designer give so limited choices and complex set up patterns. Why not keep it simple and have broad areas for the entrenchments and minefields? Why is there a need to restrict the players choices and with such a complexity? I can understand set up for Computer play and the way the forces have been deployed will allow for a defensive but when you are designing do you need to limit what a human can or can't do. Yes fair enough there are some choices you want to take out the hands of the player to stop gamey deployment, but if I want to set up a defence I want to make the choices. Of course I could open the editor and re design the game but I just wonder what is the rational for such limited and at the same time complex groupings? If it is stated as being H2H then let the player make choices and do not be so prescriptive. I will give it a go as the Germans and I can see I have some choices which are a clever feature of the game. I will not say what this element is as my Oppo will no doubt read this. This could be a great scenario if the designer just allowed the German human to choose his own defensive set up. As it stands it is a good one and for a quick 30 minutes game it poses some serious challenges for the American player to keep the tempo of attack quick. Just my 2p and I hope of use to some designers.....

Buying Farm Update - Just seen what the Germans get and I would give the stronger player the German side. I am going to start a thread on some feedback on that scenario as after seeing what the Germans get it is a tough one for the Germans to defend and there are some interesting choices.

OK some more to add to the list of good scenarios for HtH Buying the Farm. Just finishing that as American attacker and a good challenge. Not a lot of time to attack and this puts you under serious pressure to crack on with it. I hope to see the German set up later this week to see what choices they get. No Exit. Again good balance and perhaps too easy to guess how it has been balanced. I played as Germans and had a good game. My oppo disliked it as a bit of a fantasy battle. Balanced is always going to be fantasy as most battles were not balanced, but this one is not very historical but good fun IMO. SK Goin Country. Again very nice and a great map with plenty of choices. Playing as Germans and still playing it at the moment. Not sure what the Americans get but seems balanced so far, and certainly good fun HtH. The map gives the players some real challenges for some of their assets.

Excellent thread and I hope the designers can take note as I have seen a few scenarios where using French names or any name is way better than location X etc.... Just adds a bit to the experience for me anyway...

H2H can also mean Head to Head which is the same as Human to Human until we can keep heads alive in jars... Mind you do you still stay human if you just have a head?

The stuff I learn from reading these threads never ceases to amaze me. Not that I will ever have any use for it.... (Well I hope not or the state of the world is in serious trouble......)

Thanks siffo998 for responding to Childress. You got what I was trying to say unlike Childress... If the rounds does not penetrate how many hits like that before something break is the whole issue. CM has a system to model that and it could be that it needs tweaking, but I will leave that to those who can tweak.

As mentioned comes with the game and a great small scenario to start with. Very odd in some respects but I found it a great introduction to how scenarios can be crafted....

I do hope the data sent to Phil will cause a tweaking of the sub system damage as I am in same boat getting used to the new world. The advantage of the German tanks with better armour seems to be lost by losing guns / optics / tracks too easily. In a current game I lost early on 50% of my armour due to sub system damage and that was at a range where the Shermans could not hurt the tank physically but a few hits and it was effectively out of the game. I am glad Siffo998 and the others who have done the tests to try and shed light on what people have felt is not right. Anyway lets see what fixes are put into the CW Module.

Which ones have you tried and what did you think? Just giving "No Exit" a go soon and the map is interesting and I can see it is going to be a good game. (Well I hope it will be...)

OK just finishing Bois De B and played Carbide Carbide. Both are deserved good games to be played H2H and I would have no doubts about recommending them. Ensure you pick up Carbide Carbide after George tweaks it as American player will not be rewarded for winning by Victory points despite doing what has been asked. NP if you are happy to think you have won and not need the computer to tell you that you have!!! Give the American side in Carbide Carbide to the stronger player as it is a tough challenge. As for Bois give the German side to the stronger player IMO as it is a tough one for the Germans and the Americans can make a few mistakes.... Has anyone else got any further recommendations for good H2H play???

I just sent an e-mail to you. Will work on the AAR next week... Just finishing Bois De B and that might get an AAR as well as I am really enjoying it despite being the German player and being on the back foot.....

NP George as long as you are aware of it and can correct it. I can let you access the game files as they are all on drop box so you can see for your self. I am sure James will let you have his Pwd if need be. I will type you an AAR at some stage as I have a bit of time on my hands. A tough game for the Americans but with some luck it can be won IMO, not easy and very easy to muck up totally....

**** SPOILERS **** OK now I see.... Well as the scenario currently stands I don't think points wise it can be won as the Americans. Obviously for me I feel I won as I exited 4 Shermans and I think 8 half tracks and numerous men. The Germans lost all their armour and half tracks and had one AT gun left. They held two bridges and I held the other. The Germans got 200 points for the bridges and I got 200 for my bridge so that is OK. But the Germans got 579 points for destroying my kit and I got 79 points for theirs. So on that basis the Germans won a tactical victory which for me does not represent what I was told to do in the briefing I.e. Exit forces and hold one bridge. So what would the Americans have to done exactly to have scored enough points via the games system to be shown as winning? The scenario is great fun but I think it might need tweaking for the victory points to better show success for the American player. Has anyone playing as Americans managed to be shown as the winner via the end screen victory points? Just interested in if my perception of success can be matched by the victory screen. If I wanted to show points success I would have been better to keep my forces on map and try and take the other two bridges and wipe out what was left of the Germans rather than exiting my forces. Anyway if George is watching (I guess he might be busy with next module) can you tweak the design to give the Americans more points to better show a success for them? BTW no unit is shown on their unit as must having to exit, so I just think this exiting Victory condition does not really work in the scenario scoring for this one?

Excellent VAAR. At the point of the mortar strike I too thought the Americans had lost it. The German counter attack lost it for the Germans and they would have been perhaps better off waiting for the Americans to attack? Thanks for sharing this...

**** SPOILERS*** OK so as the Americans I managed to hold a bridge and drive quite a bit off the map but still the Germans showed as the victors? I got no points for exiting stuff? (I lost 3 shermans and had 2 left active on the map, the rest exited.) We did a CF so maybe this is a feature and you only get points if you complete the game to the end? I got 379 points vs the Germans 779 (200 for bridges and rest for kills on me) I will post proper review later when I have more time. Great game and we both enjoyed it. I played 1st time as Germans and stopped the Americans dead. Second time to prove that Americans could win I managed to wipe the German defenders on the bridge by farm and then exit numerous shermans and half tracks and some infantry....

http://www.tankmuseum.org/ixbin/indexplus?record=ART3249 Looks like it will be a good day to go to the Tank Museum....

Not really going to get too involved in the thread other than to add to ClarkWGriswold points. I was out last night talking with a former CM player who kept playing it beyond me and has not yet been able to get to terms with the new game and has not bought based upon the demo experience. It could be that he has not invested the time in it yet and said he would try again and I will check on his exact feedback later on Saturday when I see him again. Also I have got 3 hardcore Table Top Gamers introduced to the game from my local TT club (computer savy, and with great computer game interests) and again no buys as of yet that I know about... Again I will check with them on Monday night to find out why. I have a feeling that it is down to the UI and even one of my current opponents keeps on about lack of feed back and not knowing what is going on. For me I find it strange as I get it and by following the forum here I have learnt more to understand why... Average players won't follow the forum as closely and will be put off... The UI thread is great and getting the UI right will make a great difference to the whole fan base and hence income to be able to generate new modules and games. So I think Mr Griswold is right players are being put off and anything that can be done to make the game easier to play (without compromising the real world emphasis / model) would be good. Of course that is far easier said than done. I think it would help BTS if we could provide constructive examples of what is turning players off and I will seek to get that info from the group I know I have tried to get back into the game....