Banshee

A withdrawl of forces off the map is usually a more realistic option than a surrender. For example if I was outflanked and had zero ability to stop an opponent from rolling my flank up and defating me, I would withdraw off the map, even if i had the majority of my force un-engaged. Your opponent may think its weak, but it a million times more realistic than fighting to the last man or surrendering. For some reason withdrawing off the map seems to be the last thing people will do.

Ask them why the AI never buys TRP's either

Not Surprisingly I find this thread infinetly more entertaining than the Peng thread.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by nathan: i really want to see a pop up command. a tank will reload behind a hill or tree line or something then move to a hull down position or out of cover just far enough to shoot then back to cover. its not just something i would like to see i think it is a major detail left out of cmbo. it was used all the time its a standard tactic tankers used. especialy for u.s. because they couldnt slug it out with the germans my .02<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Try using Hunt + Reverse commands to replicate this. If i have an area which I want to search for targets I put about 10-15 hunt + reverse commands, you get a tank moving up slowly, finding a target (usually) firing, then backing down, if you made your hunt and reverse lines the right size it will get back into position just as you are reloaded. I believe the Americans call this tactic Tophat and Lowsky.

A modified Ambush command in which the Unit can have Move items and Pauses which dont go into effect until after the Ambush is triggered. This would allow for shoot and scoot tactics. Right now if a unit has its ambush triggered it has to wait out the remaining time on the turn and the command delay for the next turn before it can move. But with this new command it would move after the ambush is triggered, if you wanted the units to hang around even more you just add more pauses to the command. This would make thin skinned vehicles like marders much more survivable.

you used to be able to do adjust off a TRP, BTS said it was a bug, thus you have the (dis) functionality that we have today

It would also have the added bonus of decreasing the chance that aircraft will spot them. Right now in CM aircraft pretty much acquire a target 100% of the time.

I tried playing as Canadians but having people running around armed with nothing but hockey sticks and Lovat Blue wasn't my idea of fun (actually it is my exact idea of fun). Don't mind me, I'm just mad I live in Southern California and have to pay money in order to skate on ice! p.s. Go Kings!

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mr. Johnson-<THC>-: I agree, its going to be ahistorical as long as we are playing a game and not killing real people.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I disagree, if you place value in the lives of your little men pixels over your little flag pixels I think the game becomes much more realistic. I just dont think many people do.

Going down in Samurai style is all well and good, i'm just saying it is ahistorical.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CMplayer: Okay, but the fact that you are on a QB map playing 'defend' could be taken as meaning that you have received orders to hold out for 30 (or however many it is) turns and not fall back. Maybe the cavalry is on its way or something. That said, I agree it is a shame that the maps are too shallow to allow much in the way of shoot 'n scoot, ambush and fall back tactics in QB's. --Rett<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Lets say I was given orders to hold at all cost (for EVERY battle?! ok fine even with that assumption), there is an (usually) easily defined moment in most of my battles where it enters the point of negative returns for fighting, that is the point that I leave.A lot of times I can damage the enemy forces enough and then get off the battle field where the end total would be a draw even considering I dont hold any VL's. QB's are unrealistic because it is just random terrain, but Germans formed their lines on very defined defensive terrain, Normandy Hedgerows, Huertgen forest, Siegfried line, Rhine River, etc.. favorable defensive terrain. The average QB consists of relatively to very open terrain which in WW2 I would equate with the terrain the allies hit after the Cobra breakout but before we got to the Siegfried lines. Very favorable terrain for the attacker.

With CM maps defenders are usually pretty screwed (generalization, some maps are defender friendly, with snow and rain more maps become friendly) , what I will do is set up the most effective defense possible according to the terrain (NOT the flags), and If I get flanked or threatened to be enveloped I run off the map. Protect and preserve your force to fight another day. This works particularly well in operations. Sometimes people fight just for the sake of fighting, but fighting your force down to nothing in one 30-45 minute battle is something I would call ahistorical. my .02

I dont think it is proper to ask about penetration charts here, this is a family board. Take your perversion elsewhere!

shh dont anyone tell him, this will be funny!

shh dont anyone tell him, this will be funny!

Patton, but I went back and re-answered the last question just to see how it would affect the outcome and it gave me bradley.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jshandorf: What this..."I marched my troops out in the open and they got *shock* killed! WTF?!" Give me a freakin break... Jeff<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Gee someone being an a$$ on a internet newsgroup. You don't see THAT everyday.

Just my .02 from my reading, most patrols I read about would run away at first contact. Their mission was to find the enemy, not to engage him. There is no way to do this in CM. The best you can do is be a little gamey and time your movement so that contact will be made towards the end of a turn, And I bet there would be people who call this micromanagement A movement to contact order I think is being added in cm2, but I doubt there would be multiple parts to it i.e.: Movement to Contact (menu item) -> Stop on Contact (subitem 1) Attempt to keep moving (subitem 2) Withdraw (subitem 3) with the default being Keep Moving (as it is now with the move and fast command) .. And for people who would call the above micromanagement I propose that it would actually involve LESS micromanagement because you aren't constantly trying to do gamey things to get contact to come in the last 10 seconds of a turn OR you have to spend the majority of the turn not moving because the next clump bushes might hold baddies and you can only go in 10 meter jumps to the cover each turn in order to keep your men safe (with the current command set)

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by redwolf: Steve, one of the things that annoys me in current CM games is that the attacker can place guns in setup, often in LOS of the defenders lines or the victory flags. That means the attacker can get the guns into firing position without the problem of moving them into position and getting them spotted by the defender (who is usually in excellent observation of places that are in LOS of his lines). That is unrealistic (IMHO), and also a gameplay problem, as the attacker gets one of the benefits the defender should have exclusivly, placed and camouflaged guns. I would appreciate it if you could find a way that - either the attacker must move the guns into position - or attacker guns are subject to observation even when not moving Fixes could include that the guns must be embarked to a vehicle and that disembarking gets the same spottability as movement. Or attacker guns can only fire when they moved 20 meters or so from their original setup place. Or as a brutal fix, during the first turn, attackers guns are as spottable as if they were moving, even when they don't move. Maybe CM has a camouflage benefit for units that did not move since setup, and you could reduce that benefit drastically. Thanks for your consideration. Martin<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> An attacker could have positioned the guns at night, I dont see this as a big deal. You might have an argument about tanks "appearing" in LOS, but it is a limitation for both sides and it could be thought of as continuing a battle from that moment in time forward.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: captured vehicles cordorouy roads but do they really mean that Ambush will be replaced with Cover Arc? this sounds like you can't set the distance at which troops will open fire - only a certain arc...? [ 06-15-2001: Message edited by: Michael Dorosh ]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> IMHO the length of the legs of the triangle will define the distance. It would require trigonometry in order to explain an example so I will try to do a diagram instead: V /\ /\ /\ A-------B You select your vehicle, hit the ambush command Click on point A and click on point B , the ambush trigger line would be the line intersecting A to B. That is what I got from it at least. [ 06-15-2001: Message edited by: Banshee ] [ 06-15-2001: Message edited by: Banshee ]

Just a guess, but I am guessing that CM modeling them as HE rounds. But from what I understand rockets had shaped charge warheads. Therein may lie the rub.

Just to add a little side note to this conversation. I read in several places (book names escape me and ill post references later since im at work) that Stalin was more likely to use troops from places not firmly in Soviet control far more often than say Russian troops. This had the effect of killing off a large portion of the troops who could later come back home and fight Soviet domination. So a german seeing a large portion of asiatic troops wouldn't be out of place.

High res mods have also been proven to increase the chances of bogging. Those pixels are heavy!

I forgot to say in my original post: Thank you for your lengthy replies to all our question. And thanks again for replying to my specific question. I'm always amazed at the time (pan enormous patience) that BTS lavished on the players on the board. Thanks.

replay of the whole movie file <<--?