Banshee

Amen. ------------------ Veni, vidi, panzerschrecki

So the concern you have is that if someone was waiting for 2 turns in ambush on a certain point, shoots (which is a factor of experience, the amount of time it takes to acquire, lay on gun, and fire, which in no way would be affected by this), and immediately takes off, then it somehow negating the effects of having a higher quality troop. I see your point, I dont agree with it, but I see your point. But a solution would still exist, command delay could be in effect after the ambush is triggered (i dont agree with that except in the case where the ambush was triggered before the command delay of the order was expired). But right now CM models command delay from the point a new order is given on (unless it hasnt completed the previous order , then the delay goes into effect from the point where the last order was completed). ------------------ Veni, vidi, panzerschrecki

Yeah, but it keeps the french people where they belong! ------------------ Veni, vidi, panzerschrecki

It isnt trying to get around command delay, If the ambush is triggered before the command delay is done then the unit waits before moving (until command delay is finished). As for the "scripted" issue, it is no more scripting than, Move here, then sneak here, then ambush this spot (all in one command,which is currently possible). All I am asking for is basically the reverse (which is more useful) Ambush here, then move there,etc. ------------------ Veni, vidi, panzerschrecki [This message has been edited by Banshee (edited 01-25-2001).]

For now I can dream it will be good and drool over the graphics. ------------------ Veni, vidi, panzerschrecki

no problem, post some of your work, would love to see it. :0 ------------------ Veni, vidi, panzerschrecki

Might try a piece of software called Snagit! (they added the !) http://www.techsmith.com/ It is available on the PC and it does exactly what you are looking for ------------------ Veni, vidi, panzerschrecki

Just something to add to SirOscars excellent reply to your post. It is also a failing that the AI would only backup to a "random" place. Clearly we as commanders are setting up indications where we want our troops to go (thus the move, run, sneak commands). I just think that ability to direct where a unit should go should be refined a little. I was thinking a bit more on this last night and I think the AMBUSH command could easily accomadate this change. If you have an ambush command , and add movemement orders, the movement orders wont go into effect until after the ambush has been triggered. The one ability that it would take away from (as opposed to a seperate command) is the ability to move out with an ambush point set. But (IMHO) I think it is more useful with the ability to reposition after an ambush (rather than reposition before). ------------------ Veni, vidi, panzerschrecki

Thanks for weighing in, I agree, I hope BTS reads this and weighs just to see what their reaction is.. since after all it is their baby and they have the control over requests like this, the more debate on the such gives them user feedback as to wether or not it is a desireable item. So far we have a 50%-50% split over the "micromanagement" vs "I would like to have this feature". ------------------ Veni, vidi, panzerschrecki

Yes I agree, they should be even cheaper ------------------ Veni, vidi, panzerschrecki

Thanks for the reply! I am just curious how this command would be anymore micromanagement vs a MOVE,RUN, AMBUSH, HIDE, or TARGET? Also wondering if BTS is reading this? ------------------ Veni, vidi, panzerschrecki [This message has been edited by Banshee (edited 01-24-2001).]

for those of you without Usenet access (your ISP probably provides, they might call it NNTP) , Deja.com is a good place for reading the usenet via the web. /group/comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical]http://www.deja.com/[sT_rn=fs]/group/comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical the above link should bring you to the right newsgroup ------------------ Veni, vidi, panzerschrecki

Doh! Well the alternate name is now going to be the "Britney Spears" command. ------------------ Veni, vidi, panzerschrecki

Sure wish I could get my Marder's doing that Is there a way to reproduce this behavior so that I can replicate it on a reliable basis. Because I have seen units back up on their own (usually Shermans getting out of the way of a Panther!) but it is hardly something I can count on. If there is a kludge or workaround that would be great. ------------------ Veni, vidi, panzerschrecki

I know this is sarcasm, but in reality if the AI was based on scripting rather then compiled code then this would be an easy feature to implement. The extra time taken in making an interpretive engine in the game would be saved by the ease of adding new features later on through scripts rather than coding (usually you can teach a script kiddie to do that stuff while the programmers go a develop more tools). just a thought (p.s. BTS already said this wouldnt happen for CM, they just have too limited of programming resources (1 guy)) ------------------ Veni, vidi, panzerschrecki

As an author of one of those threads might I add 2 things. 1) Besides the Manual also read the Readme's for all the patches, since things have changed a lot since v1.0 2) If you can find a menu command that does what I want, let me know ------------------ Veni, vidi, panzerschrecki

This is called a "Straw Man" in the rhetorical world. You can distort my argument all you want, but I asked for none of the above. All I asked was for a simple command that shoots when targets come into sight and then follows a movement path after it has done so. By following your logic above if CM only had a walk command, and I asked for a run command, you would dismiss it because "then I would just want a smarter run command" if I used it wrong... If it can't be done in CM1 then that is something (and not something you can reply to but BTS can). But the above argument is meaningless. I'm sure you know this, but not all ambushes are to hold ground. Some you use just to attrit the enemy on the way to him engaging your MLR. I would love to use vehicles like the Marder III and the M8 Greyhound to do so, but they are so vulnerable to counter fire that I simply do not purchase those type of units even if the situation calls for them. The above command (though badly named! hehe) would add another level to the game and I think would be a powerful addition to defensive battles (allowing some of the weaker units to be more effectivley deployed). Programmatically (btw I am a programmer) I was trying to balance the logic from existing commands in the game, this command is almost a combination of Ambush and Hunt (if that makes any sense), with the Hunt logic triggering the movement path after firing. Again this isnt a criticism of CM, merely a feature request. ------------------ Veni, vidi, panzerschrecki

I completely disagree. It is no different than giving firing orders to a specific unit ("I want this tank to target this particular machine gun instead of the other target it had chosen", THAT is micro management, but is allowed in CM). It may be that the "pause" command would be too much micromanagement. This command is simply addressing the deficiency in CM which makes vehicles and men overly vulnerable to return fire. I think vehicles like the Marder III would be a lot more useful with ability to back away from counter fire. But they never do. It is a simple command. Shoot once, and go. It is also a standard delaying tactic. And makes it easier to keep contact with the front of enemy formations without exposing your forces to counterfire. ------------------ Veni, vidi, panzerschrecki [This message has been edited by Banshee (edited 01-24-2001).]

If done right the pause command would allow them to fire more than one shot. It would work like this: Set Ambush/nscoot command hit pause 1 time (15 second delay) set simple movement command (reverse) When the ambush spot is triggered and after the unit has fired one shot the pause would have them sit in place (hopefully firing another shot) before reversing out of sight. If you want more shooting, then add more pauses. Thanks for the feedback, any more? ------------------ Veni, vidi, panzerschrecki

When using vehicles and setting up ambushes I was noticing a distinct weakness for certain thin skinned vehicles. The issue is they would get off a first shot in an ambush but I would have to wait till the turn end (and then the command delay for the next turn) in order to get them to unass and find a new firing spot. With thin skinned vehicles this is often fatal (especially facing high ROF vehicles). So I propose the following a new type of ambush command ("NScoot") which holds a unit in place until the ambush is triggered (meaning the main gun fires a round) and then the unit will follow any previously given movement commands (allowing for "Shoot n' scoot" tactics). Or you could change the current ambush command to work like that (where movement wont happen until the ambush is triggered and units fire). And it would be made even better if the PAUSE command allowed for X number of seconds of fire before the people leave. I hope I explained this idea well, and hope for some constructive feedback. Since I really would like to use thin skinned vehicles in a more effective manner. If I need to explain it better please ask questions. Thanks, Chris p.s. I think it would make a good command for infantry units as well. ------------------ Veni, vidi, panzerschrecki [This message has been edited by Banshee (edited 01-24-2001).]

Gimme a skink or gimme death! http://www.inf.upol.cz/~stepanos/museum/skink.html ------------------ Veni, vidi, panzerschrecki

If I play the germans i'll always buy a 20mm. If the lay of the land is such that I dont have a good field of fire I will use tow it to a spot which can fire perpendicular to the advancing axis (but well forward) but is still covered from the front. Forests and the sides of hills work well. The points are low enough for a 20mm (and 75mm) where if you dont have a good LOS your not out very much , but if you do have LOS you get quite a payback. ------------------ Veni, vidi, panzerschrecki

Very well done ScoutPL. ------------------ Veni, vidi, panzerschrecki

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jeff Heidman: You never defend a village or town from inside the town itself. You are just giving the bad guys a reference point to where you are. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I believe the german doctorine was that you defend a village in the middle not at it's edges (so they wouldnt be exposed to direct fire), the american doctorine was to not defend inside the villages at all but in the surrounding terrain. ------------------ Veni, vidi, panzerschrecki

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Stuka: By the way Banshee, that was a very informative and helpful post. You see Heathy old bean, that doesn't sound like a F*****g A*****e reply to me. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> LOL my first post was trying to be helpful, the second post wasn't nearly so much .. I just think this is a very friendly board and people coming on it and DEMANDING and cussing really don't have a place here. They should go to Usenet. ------------------ Veni, vidi, panzerschrecki