The Commissar

...so you guys, what, throw Big Mac's at each other and scream -"Upper Penetration! Upper Penetration!!" -" It is NOT!" -"It is TOO!" Imagine what the poor, happless bystanders think...

Jebus H. something...I thought you guys agreed on your POV's somewhere in the "Let the healing Begin" thread? I dont think no matter how much you argue, you wont get much more then you already have, which is more then enough to write tomes on. As to Napoleon, When he got a bit too cocky and inpatient in the War of 1812, he tried to force a decisive battle onto Kutusov. However, I think the battle turned more into one of attrition then maneuver. The Russians were well entrenched, and Napoleon lost many men (for those who know: am I incorrect in assuming that before Borodino, Bonaparte never lost so many men {some 35,000} in a single battle?) where he could not take losing them. Far behind his own lines, with his supplies stretching all across Russia, with many men far away behind him thanks to the dismal condition of the Russian roads. Do you think, by the time of Waterloo, Bonaparte got too old? Was his "spark" gone? Was he just too eager to make up for his defeats earlier on and to prove to the world that he still had it? Was it just luck? Did he pick the wrong men to do the wrong things (putting fools to lead men, and generals to do staff work)? Was it a combination of all of these? Probably. Just my HO. Cheers! ------------------ "...Every position, every meter of Soviet soil must be defended to the last drop of blood..." - Segment from Order 227 "Not a step back"

Can I get some of 'em M1's your practicing in? W-what? No M1's? Fine. Ill agree with Croida then - (best hick impression) "Git em, boys!" ------------------ "...Every position, every meter of Soviet soil must be defended to the last drop of blood..." - Segment from Order 227 "Not a step back"

Once my computer is able to function properly, Ill make a scenario based on some of this stuff and see how it does. I'll probably need a pair of people (or more) to volunteer to play it in PBEM, since the computer isnt to be trusted with keeping formations intact... Ill outline a few rules, make a few adjustment, try to keep it realistic. Cheers! ------------------ "...Every position, every meter of Soviet soil must be defended to the last drop of blood..." - Segment from Order 227 "Not a step back"

This gets better with experience. The last game I played, al my men were either Conscript or Green. They went through ammo cartridges like fat people go through potato chips. Once you pop, you just cant stop...

...called Tellitubies! Those frolickin lil' homosexual Britons made Mace all giddy and happy inside. He wished he could jump into his TV and partake in their little sing-songs! "Hell," Mace thought, "One of them even looks like a pink sheep!" Giving it no second though, Mace took a deep breath and plunged...

Well, if it depends on the troop type (SMG's are better at close range, for exampple). I imagine with the exact same weapon loadout and range, they would perform the same.

"...If youh hoin *gag* ho Han Fhan His- *spit-cough* -co, be shuh to put fhowes in youh thwap..." No offense ment, John. If it makes you feel better, I had longish hair a while back. Now I bear some resemblance to Rommel 22's look. I guess that makes me a sexy bitch, or somefink ------------------ "...Every position, every meter of Soviet soil must be defended to the last drop of blood..." - Segment from Order 227 "Not a step back" [This message has been edited by The Commissar (edited 02-20-2001).]

The movie was great. The little children sing-song playing in the background of a fierce fire fight really has a chilling effect on the viewer. ------------------ "...Every position, every meter of Soviet soil must be defended to the last drop of blood..." - Segment from Order 227 "Not a step back"

Heh-heh, good one Gustav! I hope it's in the area of an actual 50K at least (a profit of $2,250,000) If it's only 20 its a measely (well, not really) $900,000 Minus the developing cost, and it would amount to a yearly savings you would get from a regular paying job. Still not bad, of course. ------------------ "...Every position, every meter of Soviet soil must be defended to the last drop of blood..." - Segment from Order 227 "Not a step back"

Ive heard countless times of people mentioning getting friends to buy the game who never post, or people lurking for months, or the countless others who are not here. All in all, I'd assume there are only several hundred people on this board. Even if each bough 10 copies we wouldnt have anywhere near 200k. Im assuming that if the figure is close to reality, most CM owners never post on our lil' board! ------------------ "...Every position, every meter of Soviet soil must be defended to the last drop of blood..." - Segment from Order 227 "Not a step back"

gunnergoz, wow, that speckled grass looks pretty neat! The latest screenshot looks a bit TOO orange for me, IMO. As far as being mesmorized by the modded enviorments and staring at the landscape... My favorite thing to do when I first got the game is set up a winter map with snow at night, scroll down to the 1st view, and look around with the sound fully up! Man, I could almost feel the chill. Reminded me of my childhood, going cross-country skiing with my grandfather (who, unfortunately, passed away a year ago) in Russia. DD's winter mods only made it better Three Cheers for all the Modders! ------------------ "...Every position, every meter of Soviet soil must be defended to the last drop of blood..." - Segment from Order 227 "Not a step back"

yO sOnN, yA wAnNa sTarT a rUcKuS? wUt-wUt! i B gItTiN mA bOyZ oN yA @$$, sOnN! wUt-wUt! uHh...bOyZ? *GULP* BRB, gItTiN mA hOmEyZ *runs off*

Hmmm...1 to 60 sounds a bit big (not to mention as Bruno said, it wont "fit the map" so to speak). As in, the figures would each have to look gigantic on screen to fill up the amount of space 60 men would. That would just look terrible. I think for the large scale of things, with formations of 600+ men each, we would need to wait a few years for the engine to handle it. Right now we can just group a bunch of men together and have some detachments. Anyone seen "Last of the Mohigans"? I think that sort of combat would port very well to CM. The scale was generally much smaller then the gargantuan battles seen in Europe and CM could handle that! ------------------ "...Every position, every meter of Soviet soil must be defended to the last drop of blood..." - Segment from Order 227 "Not a step back" [This message has been edited by The Commissar (edited 02-20-2001).]

Even if it IS "only" 200,000 copies, Steve and Charles are at the moment on some tropical island, smoking expensive cigars and sorrounded by beautiful mamacitas Just imagine how much they will be raking in with CM2 and beyond Watch out Bill Gates! [This message has been edited by The Commissar (edited 02-20-2001).]

Joe, The uniforms would be the easiest part of such a project

LOL - If BTS sold 250,000 copies, I doubt we'd have CM2! Look at the math: 250,000 x $45 = $11,250,000 E-Gadz! That's more then 5 mils a piece, even with things like development costs taken out. CM is successful, but I doubt its THAT successful. Then again...they did sell out some 3 times! ------------------ "...Every position, every meter of Soviet soil must be defended to the last drop of blood..." - Segment from Order 227 "Not a step back" [This message has been edited by The Commissar (edited 02-20-2001).]

Oops, one more easy to accomplish but crucial to gameplay adjustment: SMOKE! With every shot, a line of musketeers produced clouds of the stuff, which blocked all view and resulted in butched orders and overall confusion. All one has to do in the CM engine - assuming one has access to the code - is to type in that with every volley, x amount of smoke is produced. Kind of like a smoke round from a tank, but all along the line of men! Let's keep this going people, some good stuff here!

Bruno, The way I see it, most of these solutions will come with time. Yes, right now my Athalon 650Mhz with 64 RAM is chugging away when I load up a huge map crammed with units. In 5 years or so, when today's magnesium-cooled Cray super computer is looked down upon like the first run of Apple computers is looked down upon today, such a battle wouldnt slow down for a milisecond! Did you realise that with computer advancing at the pace they are now, we will have - brace yourselfves - 10Ghz PC's? Can you imagine what a monster of such proportions would be capable of? Oh, and any engine is modifyable. As I suggested, if we cram, say, a battalion into a group (some 600 men) and call it a company or whatnot, today the CM engine can support maybe 2 or 3 of these, at most. In 5 years? Quite a bit more, I would bet! For now however, I would be perfectly happy narrowing things down a bit. Have companies stay the way they are. For the sake of gaming, lets not concern ourselves with exact numbers, since that would be impossible. With a few modifications, we could have a glimpse at what the CM engine could do in terms of age of muskets warfare TODAY, and eagerly await the future and the many wonders it will surely bring. All IMHO, now and forever ------------------ "...Every position, every meter of Soviet soil must be defended to the last drop of blood..." - Segment from Order 227 "Not a step back"

I went into the editor today since I had nothing better to do with my damn time, and did a few test runs. First, the battlefield was relatively small and pretty hilly. On one end, with the victory flag on a big ol' hill stood my German defenders, compromosing of lots of Rifle men and 3 Inf guns. The infantry amounted to about 9 platoons, with all support weapons thrown out. The attacking Americans sported 6 guns with truck transport, and had 12 platoons worth of men. Now, for modifications: --- To simulate relatively inaccurate cannons, both my own and my enemies guns were set to Green (they wouldnt go down to Conscript level!) and given about 8 shots of ammunition each. Both my enemies and my own infantry were set to conscript, and given as high a level of fanatacism that I could set. To simulate that "stand and die" mind set of the time. Now, to simulate those pretty ranks of advancing musket men, my own and my enemie's men were divided into lines compromising of 3 platoons per line. So I had 3 lines, while the enemy had 4. I had no fog of war, so as to observe the actions of the enemy and to simulate unseen scouts often used in the afe of muskets to report enemy activities. Now, to fight the battle! --- My men were positioned around the single VL, as far out of range of cannon fire as possible. Thus, my men could not shoot at the advancing infantry. I liked it this way however, since muskets had a low range anyhow. My cannons are positioned behind my infantry line so as to be protected. First turn, all hell breaks loose! Cannons fire one clumsy shot after another. Half way into the turn, one of my guns is KO by a well placed shot! The enemy has started to advance with his men, although a cannonball in the midst of their ranks reduced one formation to a quievering heap. Turns 2-4 are relatively uneventful. The enemy ifantry have passed under my LOS and are climbing the hill I am positioned on. My cannons are all destroyed, and my men have taken a few hits. Thanks to the brave liutenants, most of my men have stopped covering and are standing strong! The enemy cannomns finally run out of ammunition early into turn 4. On turn 5, the first of the enemy infantry pop up from behind a rise in the earth. A foolish squad, seperated from the group, gets cut down by the combined firepower of 3 companies. The computer, as is to be expected, did not keep his men in strict formation. On turn 6, a mass of men which could be passed off as a disorganized formation appear into my LOS, onto my right flank. My men open fire and the enemy hits the dirt! ---Note to Devs - there's another thing you need to remidy: men CANNOT hit the dirt to avoid getting hit!--- On turn 7, clumps of men appear on my right and left flank, as well as in the centre. I have noticed that most of the enemy is concentratedin the middle and on my right flank. Many are pinned down. Many make foolish rushes into my line only to be butchered in melee. I decide to take action and end this massacre. On turn 8, I order the formation on my left flank to charge the small clump of men before them, and then to sweep up the enemy line. By the end of turn 8, my men are about to clash with the seperated and pinned down defenders facing them. In the beginning of turn 9, my men make quick work of the enemy, and proceed as planned into the disorganized and suppressed flank. An all out rout begins. I order the rest of my men to charge the remains of the enemy infantry, and those who do not flee are cut apart by my bayonets! On turn 10, the enemy surrenders. --- Well, that was some game. First off, I learned from first hand experience why in that age and time, it was so important to keep in a tight and ridgid formation. The seperated enemy hadn't a chance when he came into range, but if he was only formed up, things would have gone differently! Im beginning to think that we could do a simplistic test run of this type of gameplay right now, via PBEM and two dedicated players. Simply have a setup similar to my own, and agree to keep your men in formation at all times. The ranges would be a bit long, but if you set your men as conscripts, it may not have such an effect from far off. I'd try it myself, but at the moment my computer is giving me lots of s@it which dont have a good effect on PBEMs Hope this spawned some ideas, Cheers! ------------------ "...Every position, every meter of Soviet soil must be defended to the last drop of blood..." - Segment from Order 227 "Not a step back" [This message has been edited by The Commissar (edited 02-20-2001).]

Despite the relatively low difference in cost between Crack and Veterans, I found that Crack units exert about twice the firpower and can take several times the damage Veteran troops can dish out! I found this out the hard way, unfortunately ------------------ "...Every position, every meter of Soviet soil must be defended to the last drop of blood..." - Segment from Order 227 "Not a step back"

Space Thing, Heh-heh, glad you liked it, but I think the only persons who could read this and make a difference would be either Steve or Charles - then they could open up trhe code for us Otherwise, modifying CM code like that would require serious hacking, which is very difficult, not to mention illegal!

You know, Ive been playing around the editor, and I realized that with just a FEW simple code modifications, we could have a game that would be a decent representation of the age of muskets! This could look like this: First off, change the power and accuracy of a rifle man by about 75%, remove all semi/automatic weapons, armored vehicles, and off map arty. Modify a few models (for the cannons). Modify AT guns and decrease their accuracy (but probably not firepower) by about 50% Now, group a company worth of squads into a line (or any other 16-18th century formation) and make the men act as a single unit. IE: When I click on any of the squads, I the info for the whole group. Have all actions given to one squad, like movement or fire, performed by the entire group. Reload times would take longer, directly depending on how experienced a unit is. Routing would be decreased (those mean officers dont look kindly on that sort of thing). Formation changes would be the only real tricky part, since you would have to make a new interface to allow it. Since CM isnt able to model a lot of men anyway, we can leave the turns at 1 minute each. Increase reaction times by a good bit, what, with no radio and all. To model things like disorganization, have the entire group have its firepower slightly decreased. When it comes to meleeing, all BTS has to do is show the little models swinging and poking their guns and leave the rest as is. Finally, when all that is done, have a group of mod artists draw up uniforms and change unit names around. There ya go, a simple simulation! Albeit, without cavalry *snif*... This probobly wouldnt take very long if the code was open to us, but alas, it isnt. " *sniff* # 2 ". What do you all think? ------------------ "...Every position, every meter of Soviet soil must be defended to the last drop of blood..." - Segment from Order 227 "Not a step back"

Well, there was this one time... I was fighting a reverse-hill defense and the enemy stormed a heckuva-lot of Shermans, Stuarts, and HT's w/ infantry support over the ridge. One of my 76mm AT's scored over 6 armored casualties and more then a dozen infantry casualties! Not a very unlikely hero, but a hero none the less! ------------------ "...Every position, every meter of Soviet soil must be defended to the last drop of blood..." - Segment from Order 227 "Not a step back"

What I like the most about these models is that's what CM may look like in a few years! ------------------ "...Every position, every meter of Soviet soil must be defended to the last drop of blood..." - Segment from Order 227 "Not a step back"