Holdit

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Formerly Babra: You might consider it "gamey" but I've read a real life account of a Sherman doing just that to a Panther -- He got in so close the Panther couldn't shoot him. Pretty clever if you ask me. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> The "gamey" bit was tongue-in-cheek. I was wondering if anyone knew of a real-life occurrence of this nature. I'm glad you mentioned it, proof yet again of what a great game this is. Patboivin: Here's how it looked. The closest the Tiger could get to being on target was to have the 88's muzzle brake resting on the head of the commander of the Humber. Maybe it could have beaten him up by traversing back and forth...

This happened while testing a map I've been working on. The only victory flag was in one corner and by the end all that was left in the vicinity was a Tiger, a Humber armoured car and some British infantry. The infantry immobilised the Tiger but the Tiger sorted them out with its gun and Nahverteidigungswaffe (first time I've seen it used - very impressive!). In the meantime, the Humber, which had run right into the corner and seemed to be contemplating leaving the board, shifted into reverse and parked itself right next to the Tiger at its 9 o'clock (the British infantry was at its 3). When I went to target the Humber, it said, "Hit 0% Kill Excellent"... The little binary Humber driver had figured out that he could stop the German from gaining the win and avoid being killed by getting in so close that the 88 couldn't reach it. Seeing as crew-to-crew fisticuffs isn't modelled, at least not while their vehicles are in good working order, there was nothing to be done apart from rude gestures and abusive language... While I'm impressed with the AI, I think it's disgraceful that BTS, while telling us that it's all but eliminated gamey trickery, allows my processor to make full use of it. I've told me PC that if it pulls a stunt like that again, it can find itself another opponent...

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Quango: That's what you read. I said that it would remain a niche product. If the developers don't want success/money/etc. then fine, I won't try to convert them, or anyone here. I won't buy shares in them either though <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> You seem to be basing this argument on the premise that niche products are by definition unsuccessful. Whatever gave you such an idea? The world of commerce is full of successful companies that base their success on supplying a niche market. As to the developers not wanting success or money, well the position reactions of gamers and reviewers and the fact that their first months' supply sold out in a week seems to show that the success end is in the bag. Without even having a single product on a shelf, mind; they're selling to a niche market using what is still pretty much a niche marketing method. Not bad, eh? There's also the reward which they must feel from the pride of having designed a realistic, entertaining, historically accurate, bug-free game. If every game manufacturer took such a professional approach, the games industry wouldn't be so full of chancers making unfulfilled promises for their software and having customers pay for the privilege of being beta testers. Regarding wanting money, well that's their business, but I don't imagine this venture has left them short of a few bob. Read their manifesto to see how much better off they probably are financially by going it alone the way they have. Not much point making a successful game if you're rogered by the publisher. <B/>In the CC FAQ there is even a question: "Why didn't you make it turn based?". Their answer - because it killed the action stone dead! There could equally be an entry in the CM FAQ: "Why didn't they make it real-time?" with the answer - because it killed the realism/historical accuracy stone dead! [This message has been edited by Holdit (edited 08-18-2000).] I'll get the hang of HTML one day... [This message has been edited by Holdit (edited 08-18-2000).]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Schrullenhaft: Some of the people developing Waterloo were part of the group that bolted from Talonsoft. It looks fairly nice graphically. I wonder how well it will play being a real-time game.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I see a couple of old ASL names there too, which is reassuring. It's occurred to me that going with real-time might not be too bad (although you'd want some kind of replay function) given that in a Napoleonic battle, things would probably move a bit more slowly. It might get tricky if your basic unit is the battalion, though (which I'd prefer). Oh well, wait and see...

If anyone's interested, I'm working on a CM map of the Waterloo battlefield covering the area Braine l'Alleud - Mont St Jean - Frischermont - Aywiers - Plancenoit - Mon Plaisir (roughly). Anyone familiar with the setup will realise that I've had to scale it down a bit to get all that in, but the proportions are as near as I can get them, and it should make for an interesting map. It's about 1500m x 2400m give or take (I'm at work & can't remember exactly). All the main features are done, and I just need to do the elevations and finer details. If anyone's interested, I can mail it on or make it available for download somewhere. I'm not sure what way I'd set up a WW2 secanrio for it, though. There's still a fair bit of work to be done, but if it works out well I might try Ligny and Quatre Bras next.

I'm guessing here, because I've never used the Nashorn, but perhaps a useful approach would be to treat it like an extremely mobile 88 that has a bit of armour protection against small arms, rather than as a tank or assault gun?

I remember a minor tragedy of war during one game of Valley of Trouble. Using the Americans, I had taken the village and was advancing up the hill, and called down artillery to stonk the last few Germans remaining, one MG in a light building in particular. I'd also moved up a Sherman to blast the MG at close range. A bit too close, actually, because when the heavies started to land there was a Clang! and I was left with an immobile Sherman. Never mind, the building with the MG was destroyed, and the one survivor from the team had his hands up. Excellent, now...time to call off that artillery before I hurt myself. Could I find the spotter anywhere? Not a sign, dead or alive. So, I gave a few other commands in the meantime, and then, forgetting about the spotter, hit "Go". Ooops! The shells come down again. The Sherman survived (no thanks to its company commander!), but my prisoner didn't, because His Supreme Forgetfulness had omitted to send him to the rear. Isn't war hell?

On the subject of the possibility of an FAQ, how about drawing up a final list of topics and allocate a number of volunteers one topic each? Divide and conquer. I'd be happy to help out. We could lighten the load by copying and pasting the most informative/relevant points from each thread. Just a thought. I admit though, that I don't know how many threads each volunteers would end up having to wade through.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Flipper: I personnaly am sick an tired of having to see corner's cut that keep a game from truly being outstanding just because some cheapskate refuse's and or keeping there cpu somewhere near below average an then you gotta here'm bitch about how slow it run's as well as what the game lack's as far as i'm concerned 128 mb should be minimum!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> You're assuming that these "cheapskates" have a choice in the matter. Never heard of limited disposable income? Surely it makes commercial sense to have a game that's usable by as wide a range of systems as possible, rather than impose a kind of technological exclusivity that denies the game to gamers and the income from those sales to BTS. I'm not sure what corners you imagine have been cut in order to make CM available to the great unwashed, but it <i/>is a truly outstanding game.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by silentsniper: If you guys don't want your bent CD's..................can I have them? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I think we should keep questions of sexual orientation off the forum...

Napoleonics!

I remember one for the C64...Combat Leader I think it was called. I can't remember much about it except lots of green on a white background. It wasn't hex-based. The tanks and APCs all looked the same (a simple sprite) but might represent anything from a PIV to a T-80. I think you could even call in artillery and lay smoke.

That's it, I'm unistalling it right now. To think I thought CM was a good game...

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BasilD: I read the gamecenter review and, FROM THEIR PERSPECTIVE, the game is a 7. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> And that's how a lot of buyers would feel about it too, probably. I passed the demo on to a friend of mine who, while no grognard and not interested in WW2 history, very much enjoyed Steel Panthers. I got his reaction to CM the other day... "I didn't think much of it", says he. I was amazed. He didn't like the 3D and thought the SP interface was less fiddly, for example, with regard to the placement of unit inside a building. I explained that the reason you had to be more exact about that in CM was that it had a bearing on what that unit could see outside the house, and how easy it would be to spot it from outside. But that just wasn't important to him. What surprised me was that this individual is a very intelligent chap with an very sharp strategic brain (very strong chess player too). Then I realised that none of this means that he has to like CM. If CM has a lot of features that he isn't looking for, and lack some that he wants (Panzer General style interface) then it really isn't such a great game...for him. When it comes to judging a game's quality, there are no absolutes; something that's easy to forget when you're drooling over your own favourite.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PatAWilson: Kelly's Heroes inaccurate? Damn. Oh well, I'm off to pick up the pieces of my shattered life ... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Lol! I always thought the biggest mistake was Donald Sutherland inventing hippiedom 20 years too early...

I think it was a mention on CombatSim about a year ago. It mentioned being able to view the battlefield from multiple angles and advanced hit and penetration algorithms. I remember thinking it sounded like a good gimmick, but would probably be awful. I think I was fed up at the time having given up on Battleground Waterloo due to a couple of real howlers in the game engine having thought at first sight it was brilliant. I forgot all about CM (including the name) until I saw a screenshot that looked familiar and saw that it had been finally released. There followed such a flurry of link-clicking and review-searching that I forget where I saw that. Probably CombatSim again. I'm overjoyed at how wrong my initial reaction was

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mirage2k: 05/05/83 Can I use this knowledge to predict The Second Coming? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> You mean CM2? 15 July 1966

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pascal DI FOLCO: Skorzeny, Salut, je suis français, j'en profite ! Ce BBS est plein d'anglophones présomptueux qui savent tout mieux que tout le monde : l'artillerie allemande, l'anglais, comment le jeu doit être ... Enfin bon les prend pas trop au sérieux, ça sert à rien de s'énerver. As for all of you english-speaking only, too bad you won't understand... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Y'en a qui comprend assez bien quand meme, qui ne sont ni Canadiens ni Francais. Mais l'important, je trouve, quand il s'agit de conaissance, c'est de l'utiliser pour partager et pour educer, pas pour abattre quelqu'un avec qui on n'est pas d'accord. Rough translation: When it comes to one's knowledge of a subject, it's more important to use it to share around and inform others rather than use it to beat someone with a opposing view into submission. Nothing is serves by getting into an I-know-more-than-you pissing contest. That applies equally to knowledge of languages. I'd be interested in how such knowledge or lack thereof is relevant to this forum.

Dublin, Republic of Ireland. Am I the only one? All this talk of summer...remind me what that is again...

Perhaps the non-squad LMG represents one with more ammunition and spare barrels. The lads in the squad might have a few belts round their necks, the separate unit might be carrying a lot more in boxes. Just a theory but, if I remember rightly, that's something like the approach taken by SL and ASL.

Rookie here. E-mail available above. Off on a weeks holidays, available for combat on 5th August.

Even if CM2 is no different in approach from the Beyond Overlord version, this is something you can do yourself with a little research and thought, although division-sized operations might be a bit tricky In your own case, you could research the record of an SS unit post June '44 (with a little imagination, you could cover Italy in 1943 too). Seeing as it's an interest of yours, the research would be rewarding in itself. As regards working out the details of casualties and replacements, etc, I think some people have already posted some guidelines and, if not, there is more than enough knowledge around here to give you what you need. For example, you could take either Hohenstaufen or Frundsberg from II SS Panzer Corps from their experiences in Normandy through to their time in Arnhem/Nijmegen and whatever went before or came after that (I don't know if they took part in the Ardennes offensive). [This message has been edited by Holdit (edited 07-28-2000).]

I had SL with all the gamettes and ASL except I never really played ASL because of the sheer volume of rules, although I did incorporate some of the rules into SL. The ASL manual was a great read, though. There was so much information in it. Full marks to AH for research.

"I think Spike Milligans war memoires should be required reading." ___________________________________________ Definitely. I like the one where they had to go along a stretch of road that could be seen by German '88s. They were is a Universal carrier. Rather that run the gauntlet, they waited behind a house until another British vehicle came along...then they hid behind that, keeping it between them and the Germans as they drove! So if you've ever done something similar, it's not gamey. Or the time he wanders into a pub with his arm in a sling after a training accident, and is bought drinks all night by patrons who think he's just been on the Dieppe raid. Needless to say, he...em..forgets to put them right. "So there I was, charging this machine-gun nest..." On a more serious note, it's worth reading to reaction of the battery to the death of a popular lieutenant, and the account of Spike's breakdown while on a barren hill in Italy under fire from 88s.