aka_tom_w

I think ITS ALL ABOUT THE MANUAL ! Once the manual is written, (as it should be the final thing to be completed) then it should go to the printer to be printed. That along with duplicating the CD's will be the final stage of the process. SO I assume since none of them are posting here they are all VERY busy working, once the manual is complete and the CD is certified gold, and sent off for duplication, then maybe we'll hear from Steve as Charles whips off a demo version of the code to be ready when the game starts to ship. Now if they were smart and they enjoy the summer like the rest of us maybe they could get the whole thing out the door and shipping by, oh say... Late July, so they could take some nice summer time vacation in August?? (and September) Just a thought. -tom w

Look at what he's standing on.</font>

I eagerly await the Mac version. Michael</font>

Why? Are you suggesting that combat modifier in the form of: (0.4 - 1.6) Low, (not zero, around x0.4 modifier) Midly low, x0.7 modifier Average, x1.0 Above Average, x1.3 Surplus, x1.6 should be added to the firepower rating of these units with more ammo? What happens as the Ammo runs down?? what exactly does your proposed modifier (x0.4 - x1.6) modify? As mentioned ammo load outs can be edited in the scenario editor. I don't really understand your proposal or suggestion at all -tom w [ June 18, 2002, 12:48 PM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ]

Maybe this picture makes you reconsider your assessment: (It's geocities served, so you will have to click on it?!). Picture courtesy of Armor in Focus http://www.armourinfocus.co.uk. Guess nobody can argue with the `realism' of a photo! Regards, Thomm</font>

this was a good idea has it made to a web page of its own on someone's CMBO fan site yet? -tom w

not one comment? oh well -tom w

Not sure I agree. Orders to my M4: "Move along the road stop at the first intersection (2000 meters)." If I the next minute change my mind and say "Move along the road and stop at the second intersection (2300 meters)." Were the tank commanders unable to receive orders while moving? Or, as I'm the one who controls every squad on the battle field, couldn't the tank commanders make decissions while the tank was moving? I could understand if the changes were in the immediate future, but surely it should be possible to change the orders for something that are still 3-4 minutes away(?) I have the same problem with mortars and MGs who sometimes are left behind in a quick attack. Those are easier to understand as I guess it's harder to move with a lot of equipment on your back than commanding a tank, but it's still a fact that I'm acting as the leader for each individual squad. To extend a waypoint you will reach in a few minutes shouldn't IMHO be penalized as hard as it is. I'd like to see the same penalty for 'Stop right here right now' and adding a waypoint that is more than 2 minutes away (maybe different for different experience and 'suppression' levels). Or another way to put it: 'Stop 100 meters before the last waypoint' versus 'Continue 100 meters further after the last waypoint'. Is the difference really that big so that one should have no penalty and the other full penalty? Assume last waypoint is 100, 500 or 1000 meters away and have the second last waypoint 100 meter before that.</font>

To the best of my knowledge ("ttbomk" anybody use that abbriviation? NO? didn't think so ), it is not a limitation in the game engine, they made it that way on purpose. It is an attempt to model delays in communications, and to some degree fog of war. Units that have more experience move out faster, Those with less experience move out slower. Some folks here including myself have argued for longer and more variable (unpredictable) command delays combined with lower spotting abilities and MORE fog of war to make a better combat simulation. BFC made a decision to model the command delays a certian way. I think they might suggest that command delays are being improved in CMBB (I hope) Hope that helps -tom w

if all the .bmp files needed the same treatment and could be identified in one folder an action script in Photoshop could process all of them into shaded textures in NO TIME The real trick here is to identify and collect in one folder all the appropriate .bmp files then just run the photoshop script one them -tom w

pics look good now great story thanks for the AAR(GH!) even if it did SUCK for you! -tom w [ June 15, 2002, 11:32 PM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ]

Thats an interesting twist sounds good -tom w

Great find Rune ! Thanks it was a good read. -tom w

Thats the change I'm looking for -tom w

perhaps those lenghty re-posts were over kill? -tom w

oldie but a goody: http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/Forum1/HTML/002266.html Topic: Do vehicles constitute loss hindrance? Knaust Member posted 12-28-1999 11:33 AM In Close Encounter 2 Shermans of mine were lined up with a StuG. The backward Sherm engaged the StuG...the advanced Sherm didnt have LOS, but the red line of the former one croseed the advanced Sherm. Anyway my question is: Given the right conditions, do vehicles constitute loss hindrance? IP: Logged Big Time Software Moderator posted 12-28-1999 12:50 PM No "live" unit will block LOS. This has been explained in detail a while back, but it basically comes down to limited CPU cycles. LOS is a total pig However, a "dead" vehicle does have the ability to block LOS. The difference is a "live" vehicle is a variable, a "dead" one is a constant (in terms of location, speed, direction, etc.) The LOS calculations for the former are too intensive, the latter the same as terrain. Steve IP: Logged Gunnerdream unregistered posted 12-29-1999 01:08 PM "Close Encounters"...hmmm...is that the scenario with the E.T.'s versus the A.I.? :0 Gunnerdream...floating down through the clouds... IP: Logged TOBRUK Member posted 12-29-1999 02:58 PM Wow, Steve, that's a big revelation. You mean my tactic of bringing up a squad behind an advancing tank doesn't really provide them any protection after all? Those poor guys. No wonder they're less than friendly to me. Tom IP: Logged Lindan Member posted 12-29-1999 07:31 PM TOBRUK: your tactic needs only a little changing - shoot your own tanks!! *lol* would you like to pbem, any side any scenario?? mail me! IP: Logged Captain Foobar unregistered posted 12-30-1999 01:15 AM This is a new revelation to me. So if you fire *through* one of your units to hit an enemy in LOS, what happens regarding friendly fire??? IP: Logged Moon Member posted 12-30-1999 08:28 AM As I understand it, when the firing weapon is an MG, chances are that you'll lose some of your own guys (grazing fire). Other small arms would cause no harm, since a rifleman would simply hold fire for as long as somebody is in his way. However, when it's night or foggy, chances are that your guys would mistake anybody running into the line of fire for the enemy and possibly TARGET your own side - with usually ugly results... IP: Logged Big Time Software Moderator posted 12-31-1999 01:43 AM Yes, this has actually been brought up a number of times in the past (try a Search for more). Unfortunately, LOS checks are already something like 25% of the total calculations being done for a turn. The game would litterally grind to a halt (and I mean it in a BIG way) if we had to account for every variable unit each time somebody went to fire, as the number of LOS checks would go up exponentially. It would probably also double the RAM requirements, if not higher. As Moon states, most of the time there is no problem with the reality CM has to deal with. The real bugger is MG fire. We found that we could squeak that in with modest impact on game speed. The other one is the somewhat rare case of shooting "through" a vehicle and hitting one behind it. In all the games I have played I think I have seen such a situation once or MAYBE twice, so it really isn't a big deal. As for troops hiding behind a tank? A team or beat up squad could get some protection from nearly direct head on fire, but a full squad or angled fire would not do much in terms of protection. Again, computers are FAR less powerful than people think they are. And Charles is the best programmer I have ever worked with, by FAR, so I know there is nothing more that can be done here. Probably not for another 2-3 years or so. Steve [ June 12, 2002, 09:01 PM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ]

ok this is it: read and enjoy http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/Forum1/HTML/008989.html Pak40 Member posted 08-15-2000 01:34 AM Hi Steve,Charles and others, I was playing one of your operations the other day when one of my Tiger tanks shot a round through another Tiger to knock out a British tank. Just so people wouldn't say I was full of bull, I captured a sequence of shots and posted them here: http://www.members.home.net/jroland2/cmsnafu.htm please check it out Anyone else experience this? IP: Logged Maastrictian Member posted 08-15-2000 01:40 AM This is an acknowledged "feature." Its too hard to keep track of dynamic LOS, so dead (unmoving) vehicles block LOS but live ones do not. Only a minor problem IMO. --Chris IP: Logged Supertanker Member posted 08-15-2000 06:01 AM Another thing BTS has told us is that the graphics really are just representational, and the true LOS is calculated within the game engine. You may see some LOS lines that look blocked, but the math shows to be clear. Also, guessing based on those shots, it looks like you have unit scale set to +2. That LOS like is pretty close to center on the other Tiger, so this may not make much difference, but have you tried reducing the scale to Realistic and checking again? IP: Logged aka_tom_w Member posted 08-15-2000 07:24 AM Live vehicles do not block LOS or LOF. ONLY KO'd vehicles that are smoking will block LOS and LOF and provide cover. I think its a bigger issue than most people here admit, too be sure they know about it, they programed it that way and it is a DEAD issue. -tom w IP: Logged Jarmo Member posted 08-15-2000 08:27 AM quote: Originally posted by aka_tom_w: ONLY KO'd vehicles that are smoking will block LOS and LOF and provide cover. I think its a bigger issue than most people here admit Yeah, hope it's fixed in later CM's. Although normally not a big problem, it becomes one when you place a big tank in front of a convoy, and your opponent decides to rather fire through it and kill the small ones following behind. ------------------ Now, would this brilliant plan involve us climbing out of our trenches and walking slowly towards the enemy sir? IP: Logged Pak40 Member posted 08-15-2000 09:48 AM Thanks for the update guys. For some reason I hadn't seen anything about this in the discussion board. I can't believe that dynamic LOS is too hard to keep track. Heck, they could at least abstract it and have only vehicles check dynamic LOS. It's not so important with troops, but vehicles it is. IP: Logged aka_tom_w Member posted 08-15-2000 10:43 AM Here it is.. The MotherLoad with comments by BTS ..... Read the posts closely about Method 1 vs Method 2. This game was abstracted from ideas and tank battle simulations like in the old Avalon Hill game Tobruk. Due to CPU limitations we are told that live AFV's cannot block LOS, this is not news. Here are the relevant threads: All new players to this game should read them: http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/Forum1/HTML/004083.html http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/Forum1/HTML/004572.html http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/Forum1/HTML/004048.html -tom w quote: Originally posted by Pak40: Thanks for the update guys. For some reason I hadn't seen anything about this in the discussion board. I can't believe that dynamic LOS is too hard to keep track. Heck, they could at least abstract it and have only vehicles check dynamic LOS. It's not so important with troops, but vehicles it is. IP: Logged aka_tom_w Member posted 08-15-2000 11:04 AM The official answer from Steve: "Big Time Software Moderator posted 04-29-2000 02:17 PM I see what Lt. Bull is asking. Easily cleared up (I hope )... There are two ways, in theory, that we could simulate a round leaving a gun, its eventual path, and where it lands: 1. Use a whole bunch of variables (like weapon accuracy, guner training, suppression, etc) to determine a trajectory to the target. The trajectory would then be "traced" and wherever the shell hit damage would be done. If the hit whacked a vehicle then CM would go through all the armor pentration stuff to figure out what the impact did. 2. The trajectory itself is only a binary LOS calculation. Either the shooter can, in theory, get a round from the gun to the target or it can't. A whole bunch of constant and situationally unique variables (like LOS quality, weapon accuracy, guner training, suppression, etc) to determine the chance of the target being hit. If it is a hit then various equations determine where and HOW (angles) the shell strikes its target. Then damage is calculated based on the physics for the particular situation (HE blast near infantry, AP shot hitting sloped armor, etc). If the round is a miss there are equations to determine how badly the shooter missed based on several variables (i.e. a bad unit will miss by a LOT greater margin than a good one). Then the shell trajectory is calculated to the predetermined location (either the hit or miss one). Colateral damage is calculated based on the detonation of the round where it hits. Terrain is checked along a "miss" vector to see if it strikes something along the way. Hits don't need to check because they have already been calculated to be hits based on a clear line of fire. WOOOOO!! That took a little longer to explain than I thought OK, now what are the real world difference between the two... Method 1 -> as real as you can get! Unfortunately, it is also a CPU cruncher from Hell. If we had one or two vehicles shooting in more sterile conditions it wouldn't be a problem. But when you have letterally dozens of shots being made on a somewhat average turn, this becomes a HUGE problem. Method 2 -> On average will come up with the same results as Method 1, but only spews out a realistic number of calculations on the CPU to crunch. What you lose is the ability for the shell to accidentally strike something between A and B other than terrain. As the link Iggi gave will explain a bit more. Thankfully, the cases where this matters are few and far inbetween. So there you have it Method 1 and 2 yield pretty much the same results, with the exception of variable blockage (i.e. vehicles). Oh, well, the other difference is that Method 1 would make CM tedious to play and Method 2 works just fine. (tom w opines: I interpret this to mean that Steve is saying that CM was designed to use Method 2 to save time to process or "crunch" the result of the round being fired, hence it does not, and cannot account for live or dead vehicles which are not smoking and burning in between the shooter and the target. It should also be noted that Pillboxes and bunkers are treated as vehicles and do not offer any form of cover and do not block LOS or LOF). When you get CM take a dozen vehicles for each side, plop them on opposite sides of a level battlefield and see how slow the turns calculate. Now do that until one side is wiped out and you will notice how much faster each turn becomes with the elimination of each vehicle. Then remember that this is using Method 2 in sterile conditions with no blocking terrain or vehicles (especially not ones in motion!!) to bog down the LOS calculations. Steve P.S. Grazing fire for MGs is in fact simulated. Charles found that the math to simulate just this one feature wasn't too horrible for the CPU to deal with. [This message has been edited by Big Time Software (edited 04-29-2000).] [This message has been edited by aka_tom_w (edited 08-15-2000).] IP: Logged aka_tom_w Member posted 08-15-2000 11:12 AM This is Iggi's post Steve previously refered to: The Answer to Can vehicles Block LOS is here: http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/Forum1/HTML/002266.html Its old but it is still relevant. -tom w [This message has been edited by aka_tom_w (edited 08-15-2000).]

IIRC, to the best of my knowledge in CMBO HE rounds do not richochet. AP rounds do richochet and may cause collateral damage but they have no effect as they travel through either friendly or enemy vehicles on the way to their target. Thats my story and I'm stickin' to it -tom w

"b) "Would you want your artillery to just keep launching rounds, with no way to stop them?" well, actually yes If the order was given I would prefer the rounds continue to come down where I have last ordered them, than simply stop when the FO is killed. Now the lesson here is (OF COURSE) not to get your FO's killed but I have managed to get them killed by lucky hits of opposing arty and it means loseing all of their very valuable fire power. the accidental loss of a FO from a lucky arty or mortar hit can be quite a loss, so I thought I would make the unlikely request that they could keep firing on their last orders until the ammo ran out. :confused: If that is totally unrealistic then I must be the first to admit maybe it is not a good thing to add to the game. The Problem is I REALLY hate losing my FO's to fluke shots when I figure I'm being VERY careful with them. -tom w [ June 12, 2002, 11:08 AM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ]

FO killed: Last orders stand and fire mission continues until all rounds expended As the title says. Is it too late to lobby for this in CMBB. I have no idea if this is easy to code or not. BUT if my arty FO gets killed and he already has a request in for a fire mission and it is either waiting on the timer (counting down) or the rounds are actually falling, why do they stop when the FO gets killed? (in CMBO) Does anyone know if this has been addressed in CMBB? Thanks -tom w [ June 12, 2002, 09:24 AM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ]

This is a BRILLIANT effort! GREAT Job May I humbly suggest that somthing like this, in some form, somewhere, accompany the release of the CMBB Demo which must be only WEEKS (months? ) away. Any CMBB Beta testors care to take a few minutes and edit this wonderful effort (below) to create a similiar document for the release of the CMBB demo? I think there is a need so new folks that are perhaps more familiar with the RTS style of play will have a good place to start if they are looking for some documentation to read before they start out on the demo. -tom w Thermopylae Member Member # 3395 posted June 07, 2002 07:11 PM One Primer, Soon to be sent somewhere... My First Burning Sherman, a CM primer. Contents 1.The Really Basic Stuff 1.1 The CM Camera 1.2 Selecting Units & Issuing Orders 1.3 Movement Orders and Waypoints 1.4 Targeting Orders 1.5 The LOS tool 1.6 Hiding 1.7 Ambush 2. HQ Concepts 2.1 Command Radius and Platoon Leaders 2.2 Command Delay 2.3 Command Bonus 2.4 Higher HQs 3. Indirect Fire 3.1 Forward Observers and off map Arty 3.2 On Board Mortars Chapter 1: The Really Basic Stuff 1.1 The CM Camera First and foremost, CM involves a 3D battlefield. This often makes for an initially confusing experience, as you whip around a lot and tend to lose track of things, but is quickly overcome. Controlling the camera is relatively simple. Merely place the cursor at the top of the screen as if you were scrolling to go forward, bottom of the screen to reverse, and left or right to turn the camera that direction. Alternatively, the arrow keys may be used with the arrows all performing the same function as placing the mouse on that portion of the screen. ( Up goes forward, left turns left, etc.) Next, there are several different camera angles the player can work from, being numbered 1-8. You may switch to a view at any time by pressing the appropriate number. The first four views are complete 3D views, as follows: 1. Ground Level: The camera is kept skimming just off the ground, about the height of a soldier’s head. This is useful for plotting sneaky movements along depressions and watching replays, but easily becomes thoroughly confusing. I recommend staying away from it during the orders phase. 2. Not Quite Ground Level: To be honest, this is the least useful view in CM. It angles the camera downward, but remains fairly zoomed in, and as such you can’t see much beyond the immediate area. Makes for some cool screenshots though. (Which, by the way, can be taken w/ alt + print screen) 3. Local Command View: This is the equivalent of having the camera hovering in a church steeple above the ground. It is useful for judging elevation, lines of sight and so forth, and is essentially the view from which to micromanage. Usually this view can be used to command a platoon or two, or individual tanks, without any difficulty. 4. Command View: If you are ever confused by what the camera is doing, hit 4, center the cursor, and rotate until you see a friendly unit or particular landmark. This view lets you examine the entire battlefield in 3D, and is thus the most important one in the game. Views 5-8 are top down maps of various zoom levels. Not particularly useful compared to View 4, but they do have their moments. Note: Shift C can be used to increase the image size of your units, making finding them easier. Shift B toggles unit bases on or off, providing large squares of color to highlight units. 1.2 Selecting Units and Issuing Orders To select a unit, place he cursor over it and left click. You can then either ENTER to view the unit’s vital statistics, TAB to center the view behind the unit, or an orders hotkey to, well, give an order. To select a group of units, drag a box around them, or double click their HQ (see HQ concepts) To give orders to a unit, right click on it. For a group, right click one unit of the selected group. Upon your click, a list of orders will appear, as well as an orders line (a colored line with a white box at the end) what you do with this depends on the order. Either way, you move the orders line as you would the mouse cursor. 1.3 Movement Orders Once you have selected a unit to give orders to, as mentioned above, select a movement command (see list at end of this numeral). You will now have an orders line with a white box at the end of it. This white box represents where you will tell your unit to move upon left clicking, the orders line represents the path they’ll take. Often enough, however, you will not want your units to move in a straight line to a destination. To create waypoints in a movement path, drag the orders line to the designated waypoint and right click. You will now have locked that waypoint in, and will have a new orders line originating from that point. On the final leg, left click to seal the orders. Note: Group orders cannot be waypointed. They also just replicate an order for the entire formation. Thus, run 250m at 27 degrees to that building becomes run forward 250m at 27 degrees to all units in the group. Movement Orders (Infantry) Run: Men run forward without stopping until they reach their destination, are all killed, or more likely, become damn fed up with being shot. They will fire at targets of opportunity. Some units, like MGs, cannot run. Move: Men walk forward as per conditions of run. Less fatiguing. Sneak: Unit treads forward stealthily (less likely to be spotted, won’t commence fire while moving) and will stop and return fire if fired upon. Typically they’ll find cover as well. Crawl: Units crawl forward with a low tolerance for incoming fire. Best used behind walls/hedges. Will not fire while moving. Very stealthy, very slow. Withdraw: Unit runs away as fast as possible with no command delay. (See HQ concepts) can only be used towards friendly map edge, and risks severe morale penalties. Halt: Cancels all movement orders. Vehicles: Move: Universal walking pace. Fast: Vehicle zips at top speed towards destination. Hunt: Unit moves forward at a medium pace, and will stop to engage any vehicle sit spots. Reverse: Vehicle will move backwards to destination at a medium-fast speed. 1.4 Targeting Orders There are two basic targeting orders in the menu. The first is the simple TARGET command. Upon clicking this, an order line will appear for you to drag to either a target unit or terrain feature. If you highlight an enemy unit, a small data readout on your firepower and their exposure will be shown for infantry targets, or a hit chance/kill chance if you target a hard vehicle with a non-small arms weapons. Small arms versus vehicles only display the target name. Left clicking on this unit will make it the primary target of your selected unit. Note: If you do not have LOS to the target, (the orders line will turn orange up to the point of blockage and black thereafter), left clicking will just set it as a priority target for your unit, which will try to fire on it if it comes into view. The TARGET command, when used on a terrain feature, creates an area fire order. The unit under command will fire to try and suppress that patch of ground until the TAC AI decides it’s a really bad idea (i.e. enemies show up 10m on the left of the unit) or you cancel the order. This is NOT as effective as targeting individual units. The NEXT TARGET command rapidly cycles you through targets the unit can see and the TAC AI thinks worthy of shooting full of holes. Note that this sometimes means you won’t be able to target some units with NEXT TARGET. 1.5 The LOS tool. Essentially, the LOS tool functions exactly like a TARGET command, but clicking will not assign a target. 1.6 Hiding In order to generally remain unseen, the HIDE command is used. There is no order line. The unit merely hits the dirt and qualifies as hiding. Once a until is hiding, it will try to refrain from opening up until it has a good chance to kill enemies (or the unit “freaks out”, more likely with low experience troops), it starts receiving heavy fire, or it gets the bejesus beaten out of it and runs away (Usually accomplished with artillery). While hiding, troops are very difficult to spot, but suffer a minor spotting penalty themselves. To stop hiding, re-issue a hide command or give any regular order. To Hide at the end of a movement order, plot the movement order, and then issue a hide order. The unit will move to its destination and then hide. Note: Vehicles and HIDE are just a bad combination. 1.7 Ambush Markers Sometimes you’ll want to custom tailor an ambush beyond just hiding and hoping something wanders into range. To do this, select either an HQ or a crew served weapon (like a bazooka) and then select the AMBUSH command. This will generate a targeting order, which you can then drag to anything within ~400m. Upon left clicking, an ambush marker will be set at the end of the targeting line. In the case of HQs, this marker represents a pre-planned ambush, and other units under the HQ’s command (see HQ concepts) can target it to participate in the ambush. When an enemy unit crosses this point, the units that have targeted the marker will fire on the enemy. For crew served weapons, the marker merely serves as an ambush for that weapon, and other units may not target it. This would be the equivalent of telling a bazooka to fire when a tank shows up at that break in the hedgerow. 2 HQ Concepts 2.1 Command Radius and Platoon Leaders All infantry squads in the game are assigned to a particular platoon. Ever platoon has an attached HQ unit which is its commander. In addition to representing the actual command staff of the platoon, this unit represents its center of effort and cohesion. As such, all units must stay within a certain range of their HQ in order to be “In command.” This range is the command radius of the HQ. The radius increases with experience and particularly good leaders, and decreases in thick terrain or if the subject unit is out of LOS. Units that are in command have a red line leading from them to their command unit. Units that are out of command have a black line. A Platoon HQ shows all lines, red or black, to its organic squads. Note: Infantry squads cannot be commanded by platoon HQs from other platoons, but crew served weapons can be under anybody’s command. Units that are out of command suffer morale and fighting penalties, delayed reaction times to orders, and do not get the benefits of any command bonuses that HQ might have. 2.2 Command Delay For movement orders, your men do not react automatically. Every movement order has a time delay before it actually begins. More experienced troops, troops who aren’t being suppressed, and troops that are fully rested have better reaction times than their counterparts. The biggest factor, however, is whether or not the unit is in command. Units that are out of command seem to suffer an additional 66% time delay. This doesn’t mean much to the best of the best whose reactions are incredibly fast anyhow, but for regular troops that’s an additional 13 seconds at least. 2.3 Command Bonus Not only do HQ units allow those under their command to fight to the fullest extent of their abilities, but often they add bonuses to unit performance. Units must be in command to receive these bonuses. The 4 areas of command bonuses are: Combat: Adds to the firepower/accuracy of the firing units as if they were more experienced. Is represented by a lightning bolt in the unit bar. Morale: Troops have the morale equivalent of an additional level of experience for each level of this bonus. Heart in the unit bar. Stealth: Troops are generally stealthier and spot other units better. Question mark in the unit bar. Command: Command delay is changed as if the unit were one level of experience better for each level of this bonus. Also creates a larger command radius. Star in the unit bar. Each bonus may be either one level (represented by the symbols above) or two, (above symbols surrounded in a gold box) 2.4 Higher HQs Besides platoon HQs, there are also Company and Battalion HQs in CM. One of these HQs automatically assumes command of any infantry squads in command radius not in command, and all crew served weapons in its command radius. They will not, however, assume command of infantry squads under the command of their platoon leaders. 3. Indirect Fire 3.1 Forward Observers/Off board artillery Off board artillery in CM is abstracted through the forward observer unit. Each FO is a team of two men that represents one off board battery. An FO does not fight like a traditional infantry unit, rather when the TARGET command is used, creating a blue target line. An artillery strike is requested on the targeted location. In the unit information bar, you should see the time remaining until the artillery strike arrives. Allied times are usually better, and smaller caliber weapons are typically faster to respond as well. Once there is one minute left until the strike, the time will start counting down in seconds. Around halfway through a few spotting rounds will fall, and then when the timer hits zero the battery will start firing for effect, unleashing volleys of four shells at a time. It will keep firing until the battery runs out of ammo or you cancel the fire mission. It is possible for the FO to request artillery strikes outside of its LOS. Simply drag the target line out of LOS (it will turn orange and black, orange for what he can see, black for what he can’t) and select an area to target. However, these strikes take about twice as long to arrive, and are inaccurate in comparison to a spotted strike. Also, you may wish to shift a fire mission a minor distance to accommodate for enemy movement or targets of opportunity. To do so, select the TARGET command again, and drag it around the current targeted area. As long as this line remains green, you may re-set the target line for a minor time delay. If you place the new target outside the region in which this line is green, you will have requested a new fire mission, and will have to wait for the full battery reaction time. 3.2 On Board Mortars On Board mortars must have LOS to a target to fire on it, unless they are in the command radius of an HQ unit. If a mortar is in command, it may fire at anything the HQ unit can see, even if the mortar itself cannot. Most mortars on board also have a minimum and a maximum range they can fire. These will be indicated by an “OUT OF RANGE” readout above the point of the target lien when issuing a firing order. -------------------- [ June 12, 2002, 06:58 AM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ]

um.... I hate to burst the bubble in this thread but if we are talking about ballistics and the way they are currently modeled in CMBO the armour penetration model doesn't work that way. "went clear through the first half track with one casuality and hit the second and made it explode!" seriously Perhaps it is possible the impact or explosion of the round into the second HT CAUSED the casuality in the first HT? in the game the round can travel through friendly and enemy vehicles with NO EFFECT until it hits or misses what was aimed at. I'm surprised other folks have not commented here. AFVs and ATG's in CMBO shoot right through each other with no effect. if you are targeting a column of tanks, the tanks in front offer no LOS or LOF cover at all as you can fire right through them and target the ones in the rear. (Try it) Then, when the round is fired it has no effect on the way to the target and only effects the target and maybe the resulting explosion or a ricochet if there is no penetration will cause colateral damage BUT the round on the way to the target never has any effect on anything it supposedly "flies" through to get to the target. Does that makes sense? -tom w

there's more here and they are all BEAUTIES! http://www.battlefront.com/Model_Contest/finalist/pages/NEW-2.htm http://www.battlefront.com/Model_Contest/finalist/pages/ have you guys seen these? http://www.battlefront.com/Model_Contest/finalist/pages/su100-4.htm VERY nice work looks like there were plenty of entries to choose from! -tom w

You might also conclude a crew under fire is peaking on Adrenaline and they may not aim well but I'll bet the loader is loading as fast as he can because if the crew is being fired at upon their lives depend on it. My limited readings of Allied tank battles in WWII give me the impression that when the TC says "we've got a HIT "pour it on" the ROF roughly doubles as the gunner and loader go into burst mode to destroy the target before it fires back and gets a hit. Same for HE only its easier because as Andreas pointed out, you don't have to be so accurate. I have read accounts of 75 mm Shermans knocking down small wooden houses (reduced to rubble) in under a minute while firing 7 HE rounds one after another rapidly. Thats why there is a READY rack with HE and AP available so the loader can switch into "burst mode" when they need a minute or so of sustained rapid ROF IMHO. -tom w [ June 10, 2002, 02:23 PM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ]