rune

well said sgt goody, well said. Rune

It is wayyyyyyy too early in the process to do anything even close to this. Remember, the engine is being re-built from scratch, and there is one brain in a jar coding it. All it would do at this time is create noise.. When the time comes, I am sure suggestions will be asked for. Rune

Last comment on this, since the poster has less interest in why I did something, but rather insult amd guess at my intentions, INSTEAD of just asking. You can believe the attack of the 1st RTR followed the 2nd RTR, [Also look tot eh French web site listed below] or, you can trust the AAR from the 11th Hussars: RHQ. While at MSUS another “Force” was formed consisting of 11th Hussars, less A & B Sqns, plus one Sqn of the KDGs, the Rifle Bde and guns under Lt Col Campbell, the whole force under command of Lt Col Combe. RHQ left MSUS at first light in the tracks of C Sqn. The remainder of the Force followed a little later. On reaching ANTELAT, the B vehicles were left there and the 4 ACs plus Col Campbell in an 8cwt truck went on towards the main road. On arrival at SIDI SALEH the Colonel and Colonel Campbell carried out a recce. A suitable position for RHQ was found and the rest of the Sqn sent for. They eventually arrived with the rest of the Force. The guns were positioned and the Rifle Bde took up positions on the road. 6/2/41 C Sqn. At 0800 hours 2Lt Crankshaw 5Tp moved to X1876 to contact 4th Armd Bde and to observe any enemy movement to the SE. At 1000 hours the Sqn moved to the White Mosque on the road and on the way contacted Cols Renton and Campbell as the Sqn task was to protect the right flank of the Rifle Bde and the guns while they blocked the road. Sgt Lamb captured 1 Italian officer and 13 ORs. [rune note: Right flank is the east, the Rifle Brigade was across the N_S road and then some, and was deploed east and west.] Found the Regimental History of the 1st Royal Tank Regiment, that differs with the tank type. According to the History of the 1st RTR, it states they had A9s and Light tanks, then were re-equipped with the Matilda. The article I have, definitely has a picture of 1 RTR under the Matilda, and since the article is about the battle of Beda Fomm, why would I not expect it to be there? However, I am guessing they grabbed a picture of 1 RTR AFTER it has re-equipped. Here is the web site: http://www.mikekemble.com/1RTR/history.html Last, as for why I didn't go out and buy books on the subject, I bought a few hundred dollars worth of books already just for CMAK. If anyone would like to buy me a book to make a scenario, be glad to do it. O, and The Rifle Brigade, anyone have more information on it? When I did a search on it, I found the Aussies, obviously this is now wrong. However, I still cannot find anything more in detail about them. Anyone? The rest, I think the web sites speak for themselves. As you see, if there are errors, then it was honest errors on the part of authors who I followed. It was not to make the scenario "cool" or anything else. Between the comment of the authors, who say the Italians came from the east, the 11th Hussars who protected the flank to the east. The 2nd RTR being forced off the pimple. This shows the relief column coming in from Sidi Saleh, which is S of beda Fomm: February 6, one second column of 7th brigade armoured arrived of Sidi Saleh to support Combe, which was attacked by Italians site: http://hsgm.free.fr/batailles/bedafomm.htm Needless to say, it was a large swirling battle with the Italians trying every route to get past the british. Rune [ December 18, 2003, 11:14 AM: Message edited by: rune ]

Last comment on this, since the poster has less interest in why I did something, but rather insult amd guess at my intentions, INSTEAD of just asking. You can believe the attack of the 1st RTR followed the 2nd RTR, [Also look tot eh French web site listed below] or, you can trust the AAR from the 11th Hussars: RHQ. While at MSUS another “Force” was formed consisting of 11th Hussars, less A & B Sqns, plus one Sqn of the KDGs, the Rifle Bde and guns under Lt Col Campbell, the whole force under command of Lt Col Combe. RHQ left MSUS at first light in the tracks of C Sqn. The remainder of the Force followed a little later. On reaching ANTELAT, the B vehicles were left there and the 4 ACs plus Col Campbell in an 8cwt truck went on towards the main road. On arrival at SIDI SALEH the Colonel and Colonel Campbell carried out a recce. A suitable position for RHQ was found and the rest of the Sqn sent for. They eventually arrived with the rest of the Force. The guns were positioned and the Rifle Bde took up positions on the road. 6/2/41 C Sqn. At 0800 hours 2Lt Crankshaw 5Tp moved to X1876 to contact 4th Armd Bde and to observe any enemy movement to the SE. At 1000 hours the Sqn moved to the White Mosque on the road and on the way contacted Cols Renton and Campbell as the Sqn task was to protect the right flank of the Rifle Bde and the guns while they blocked the road. Sgt Lamb captured 1 Italian officer and 13 ORs. [rune note: Right flank is the east, the Rifle Brigade was across the N_S road and then some, and was deploed east and west.] Found the Regimental History of the 1st Royal Tank Regiment, that differs with the tank type. According to the History of the 1st RTR, it states they had A9s and Light tanks, then were re-equipped with the Matilda. The article I have, definitely has a picture of 1 RTR under the Matilda, and since the article is about the battle of Beda Fomm, why would I not expect it to be there? However, I am guessing they grabbed a picture of 1 RTR AFTER it has re-equipped. Here is the web site: http://www.mikekemble.com/1RTR/history.html Last, as for why I didn't go out and buy books on the subject, I bought a few hundred dollars worth of books already just for CMAK. If anyone would like to buy me a book to make a scenario, be glad to do it. O, and The Rifle Brigade, anyone have more information on it? When I did a search on it, I found the Aussies, obviously this is now wrong. However, I still cannot find anything more in detail about them. Anyone? The rest, I think the web sites speak for themselves. As you see, if there are errors, then it was honest errors on the part of authors who I followed. It was not to make the scenario "cool" or anything else. Between the comment of the authors, who say the Italians came from the east, the 11th Hussars who protected the flank to the east. The 2nd RTR being forced off the pimple. This shows the relief column coming in from Sidi Saleh, which is S of beda Fomm: February 6, one second column of 7th brigade armoured arrived of Sidi Saleh to support Combe, which was attacked by Italians site: http://hsgm.free.fr/batailles/bedafomm.htm Needless to say, it was a large swirling battle with the Italians trying every route to get past the british. Rune [ December 18, 2003, 11:14 AM: Message edited by: rune ]

And again you are basing everything on the FIRST day,not the second. Everyone, here are the quotes: "The Generals discussed their next move while Free French marines poured rifle fire into delayed action bombs the Italian Air Force had dropped in an effort to block the trails"? "Feb. 6th dawned...Tasked with the breakout at Beda Fomm Bergonzoli knew his 21st Corps was on its own. Lacking reconaissance and adequate information, he voted for s short hook east through the desert to outflank the British defenders, relying on superior numers." Decide for yourself if David Lippman said this or I am making it up as implied. Oh, just found this, while not the exact article I have, it is close. Notice the part where the attack came from the east. http://www.magweb.com/sample/seuropa/seu55daw.htm Rune

And again you are basing everything on the FIRST day,not the second. Everyone, here are the quotes: "The Generals discussed their next move while Free French marines poured rifle fire into delayed action bombs the Italian Air Force had dropped in an effort to block the trails"? "Feb. 6th dawned...Tasked with the breakout at Beda Fomm Bergonzoli knew his 21st Corps was on its own. Lacking reconaissance and adequate information, he voted for s short hook east through the desert to outflank the British defenders, relying on superior numers." Decide for yourself if David Lippman said this or I am making it up as implied. Oh, just found this, while not the exact article I have, it is close. Notice the part where the attack came from the east. http://www.magweb.com/sample/seuropa/seu55daw.htm Rune

Multiplayer will be looked at with the new engine. Rune

Nope, found this, on all places, a discussion about Isreali wars... Marmon-Herrington IVF Armoured Car The South African built Marmon-Herrington IVF was the most widely used commercially built armoured vehicle in 1948-49. Used by Trans-Jordanian Arab Legion, Syrians and Egyptians, and occasionally when captured by the Israelis. British supplied vehicles with a 2-pounder main gun and a Browning machine gun. Individual Israelis say they feared the fire from the 2-pounders of the Marmon-Herringtons more than the other Legion artillery 'cause the red hot shot broke up as it traveled thus forming a fire ball that came at them slowly and with a frightening roar' (Shamir, 2001). Some of the material the Israelis captured was damaged, so on at least one occasion a captured Marmon-Herrington IVF had it's 2-pounder replaced by a French Sa.38 37mm gun from a Syrian R-39 tank.

Mark, I was thinking about this, could be both be correct? Could it be the South Africans decided not to go ahead with the IV, while the British produced one? Rune

You rang???? Oh, just the gnomish one blathering again, carry on, carry on... Rune

Here is the web site: http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/ Look up South Africa. Rune

Wadepm, Focus on 1 RTR, as I stated, I now find 4 sources, each saying something different. Web Site: made up of light tanks. Web Site: Made of A9s and light tanks Magazine article: Just says 1 RTR and has a picture of a Matilda marked it was part of the 1 RTR. Web site: Picture of a matilda and says re-fitted in Cairo, no date. Unit marking on the Matilda are DEFINITELY 1 RTR. So not sure on it. 7th Armoured has NZ, South African and Aussie troops and formations in 1940. When I looked up the 2nd Brigade, I came across an Aussie unit, however, due to the above comments, I did find Free French Marines were DEFINITELY there, but no more on the make of the infantry. Moorehead does state when he got to Beda Fomm immediately after the fighting, he met soem Aussie troops. Not specified enought on how long after. However, his description of the battle does support the other article that on the second day, the Italians tried a hook from the east, and the third day, tried across the sand dunes on the coast. I think they tried all routes to try to escape the trap that was set. Rune Rune

Wadepm, Focus on 1 RTR, as I stated, I now find 4 sources, each saying something different. Web Site: made up of light tanks. Web Site: Made of A9s and light tanks Magazine article: Just says 1 RTR and has a picture of a Matilda marked it was part of the 1 RTR. Web site: Picture of a matilda and says re-fitted in Cairo, no date. Unit marking on the Matilda are DEFINITELY 1 RTR. So not sure on it. 7th Armoured has NZ, South African and Aussie troops and formations in 1940. When I looked up the 2nd Brigade, I came across an Aussie unit, however, due to the above comments, I did find Free French Marines were DEFINITELY there, but no more on the make of the infantry. Moorehead does state when he got to Beda Fomm immediately after the fighting, he met soem Aussie troops. Not specified enought on how long after. However, his description of the battle does support the other article that on the second day, the Italians tried a hook from the east, and the third day, tried across the sand dunes on the coast. I think they tried all routes to try to escape the trap that was set. Rune Rune

The Marmon-Harrington IV I would trust the South African on. I also contacted the South African Military museum and got pretty much the same thing. I see you saw the RA Artillery still had the 18 pdr. Trust me, it caught me completely by surprise when I found it. They still had some 60 pdrs in use also. The South African tank formation is correct. They had the one section of 105mms, but as a whole, were well equipped. They also had more tanks available then the normal formation. The recce I have seen in South African and I think Canadian oobs. I wish I had the volume on British tank divisions. His book on the Afrika Korp is wonderful, however. Having talked to George personally, yes, I have found some errors, but as a whole, I trust his judgements. Steve will have to answer on the rest, as I didn't do the British. Just wanted to show that I did see sources that argued with yours. I think Africa was whatever could be found and thrown together at various points. Rune

Then I suggest you argue with Moorehead David Lippman Thie was NOT the fighting on the first day, it is the fighting after the column was stopped. Lt. Col John Combe was sent with the Combe force to stall the column the first day untill the rest of the division could catch up. I also show a detechment of Free French Marines that fired into delayed action bombs to block trails. Notice, this was NOT a jock column. As for the attack from the East going west, I already put in that source. As for Matildas, I have pictures of 1st RTR having Matildas. I will yield the point that maybe the pictures are mis-marked, as I found a source that said they had matildas, another that said A9s, and yet another saying light tanks. I just found on a web site another picture os 1 RTR having Matildas. Again, if anyone has better information, would appreciate it. As for the Infantry, Moorehead and Lippman both mention the Free French Marines, which already shoots down the British only comment. They both state the 2nd Rifle Brigade was with them, and I pulled it up as a mix of units. So, Saying it was British only is the fantasy. If you have better information on the mix of troops of the Combeforce, I would appreciate it. Again, it was NOT a jock column, nor was it part of the 6th Australian Division. Itg was an ad hoc formation that raced to stop the Italian until the rest of the Division could catch up. Ahhh, just found in my Moorehead book which he also says the hook came from the east on the second day. Rune

Then I suggest you argue with Moorehead David Lippman Thie was NOT the fighting on the first day, it is the fighting after the column was stopped. Lt. Col John Combe was sent with the Combe force to stall the column the first day untill the rest of the division could catch up. I also show a detechment of Free French Marines that fired into delayed action bombs to block trails. Notice, this was NOT a jock column. As for the attack from the East going west, I already put in that source. As for Matildas, I have pictures of 1st RTR having Matildas. I will yield the point that maybe the pictures are mis-marked, as I found a source that said they had matildas, another that said A9s, and yet another saying light tanks. I just found on a web site another picture os 1 RTR having Matildas. Again, if anyone has better information, would appreciate it. As for the Infantry, Moorehead and Lippman both mention the Free French Marines, which already shoots down the British only comment. They both state the 2nd Rifle Brigade was with them, and I pulled it up as a mix of units. So, Saying it was British only is the fantasy. If you have better information on the mix of troops of the Combeforce, I would appreciate it. Again, it was NOT a jock column, nor was it part of the 6th Australian Division. Itg was an ad hoc formation that raced to stop the Italian until the rest of the Division could catch up. Ahhh, just found in my Moorehead book which he also says the hook came from the east on the second day. Rune

Check your sources, some are incorrect. Here on the Marmon-Harrington Here is a letter received from a South African Army Officer who disputes the coloring scheme as shown above. It would not be the first time that TANKS! has found printed books to be incorrect. Since he was highly knowledgeable about the Marmon Herrington, I have included it here with minor editing. In 1938, the government of South Africa ordered the developement of two types of armored cars. Work proceeded slowly until the outbreak of WW2, at this point all work was quickened. Just like the Australians, the South Africans proved themselves exceptional at doing great things with an almost non-existant automotive industry. Orders swelled to 1000, and with only the existing prototypes to work with, finished examples were produced within months. The armored cars were produced by importing Ford truck chassis from Canada, Marmon-Herrington 4 X 4 transmissions from the USA, and armament from the UK. Local assembly was done in railroad workshops and local steel mills. Model 1 - was a 4 X 2 drive arrangement. The unit was used in action against the Italians in East Africa. These units made a poor showing and were thereafter confined to training only. Model 2 - known to the British as Armored car, Marmon-Herrington - was a full 4 X 4 car. This model was used extensively in reconnaissance during the North Africa campain. Usually, this was the only vehicle available in any numbers for that purpose. The car was considered by the troops to be under armed and under protected. Local modifications were usually made consisting of extra armor plate and heavier guns. Some going as far as mounting the Italian 20mm Breda cannon, German 37mm cannon, 45mm cannon, and the British 2 pounder. These local modifications were considered successful and some of the changes were added to later models. Model 3 - incorporated the British 2 pounder as a main cannon as one of the produced models. Others mounted up to 4 Bren guns. Still others served as command and repair vehicles. The Japanese were quick to use this car whenever they captured one. Model 4 - never went beyond prototype. This unit was heavily inspired by the German 8 wheel armored cars. http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/ As for the 18 pdr being phased out by Crusader? I have to&es with the numbers of them being used, for example: 1st South African Anti-tank Regiment, 16-18 pdrs and 48 2pdrs. "c" Battery 73rd Anti-tank regiment, RA (less 1 troop) 4-18pdrs and 12-2 pdrs. Nafziger's OOB of the battle of Sidi Rezegh British machine gun battalions were redesigned into support battalions which were then broken into brigade support groups. Each group had 12 Vickers MMGs, a heavy mortar company with 8 4.2" mortars, and an anti-aircraft company with 16-20mm AA Guns. Suck support groups saw action in North Africa. Nafziger The British Armies of World War Two, an Organizational History, Volume Two, British Infantry Divisions. As for the Stuarts being used as troops transports, same volume from Nafziger states they WERE used since there was a glut of them and the tank was no longer in use. This pertains to the South Africans and is found on page 31. Just things I found that disagrees with your sources. I don't have the British Tank Divisions, but maybe I can go to the library and dig that one out. Ahhh, at the end of the book, the South Africans used the following formations which was based on the British: 2X Armoured Regiments each with: Regimental HQ 4X Sherman Tanks 11X Stuart Recce Tanks 3X Sherman Observation Tanks 1X ARV 1X Assault troop with 6X Sherman 105mm Tanks 3X Squadrons, each with: Squadron HQ 4X Sherman 76mm 4X Troops each with: 3X Sherman 76mm 1X Troops with 3X Sherman Fireflys Nafziger, Pg 31 of the Volume 2 mentioned above. Just some sources that state they way it is, is correct. Rune

As for from the west, unit historys, include this: "At 2:30 PM sharp-eyed British soldiers saw a cloud of dust heading towards them. It was teh retreating Italian 10th Army. Combe and O'Connor had wont he race...by two hours. But the enemy outnumbered the British by 5 to 1 in tank and guns". There are several paragraphs stating how the British beat the Italians to Beda Fomm and had set up the ambush. I again, stand by the scenario. Oh and one more comment on the attacj, and again i quote: " Tasked with the breakout at Beda Fomm, Bergonzoli knew his 21st Corps was on its own. Lacking reconnaissance and adequate information, he voted for a short hook EAST through the desert to outflank the British defenders." The attack came fromt eh East while the British were reinforced from the west,a nd another column attacks from the coastal road. Rune

As for from the west, unit historys, include this: "At 2:30 PM sharp-eyed British soldiers saw a cloud of dust heading towards them. It was teh retreating Italian 10th Army. Combe and O'Connor had wont he race...by two hours. But the enemy outnumbered the British by 5 to 1 in tank and guns". There are several paragraphs stating how the British beat the Italians to Beda Fomm and had set up the ambush. I again, stand by the scenario. Oh and one more comment on the attacj, and again i quote: " Tasked with the breakout at Beda Fomm, Bergonzoli knew his 21st Corps was on its own. Lacking reconnaissance and adequate information, he voted for a short hook EAST through the desert to outflank the British defenders." The attack came fromt eh East while the British were reinforced from the west,a nd another column attacks from the coastal road. Rune

This one is historical, and I stand by it. There were two roads, one North-South and one East-West there. I covered the fighting on the east-west road. WWII magazine,page 59 for the map. Second, the Italians were cut off, of course to withdraw they have to try to get through the Aussies, it was the only route open to them. Last, A bit think? Sorry, historically that is EXACTLY what happened. "By 11:25 the 11th Hussars were down to one tank...at the critical moment the 1st RTR finally arrived." Real map, real units, real arrival. Sorry other games you played listed it different, i even gor a 1:25000 map of the area and stand by it. Rune

This one is historical, and I stand by it. There were two roads, one North-South and one East-West there. I covered the fighting on the east-west road. WWII magazine,page 59 for the map. Second, the Italians were cut off, of course to withdraw they have to try to get through the Aussies, it was the only route open to them. Last, A bit think? Sorry, historically that is EXACTLY what happened. "By 11:25 the 11th Hussars were down to one tank...at the critical moment the 1st RTR finally arrived." Real map, real units, real arrival. Sorry other games you played listed it different, i even gor a 1:25000 map of the area and stand by it. Rune

After CMBO we tried, but it was too much to code with the current engine. This has been stated many times before, and is one of the things we are hoping to add in the new engine. Rune

What version of the games do you have? You have to have the latest, as the game will not see newer scenarios from an older build. Just a possibility. Rune

Nothing to reconsider, it will not be added back in. Rune

You will be pleased to know that to reduce Axe's frustration, I sent him two new scenarios to distract him from CMAK. Of course, they are CMAK scenarios, but that really shouldn't bother him. Rune Hmm, maybe I can have him edit the briefings, he is bound to get one edited right SOMETIME.